[PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[KOSAKI Motohiro]

Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
used only embedded people.
Thus, moving it into embedded submenu is better.


Signed-off-by: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
Cc: Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>
Cc: Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>
---
 init/Kconfig |   12 ++++++++++++
 mm/Kconfig   |   12 ------------
 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 12 deletions(-)

Index: b/mm/Kconfig
===================================================================
--- a/mm/Kconfig
+++ b/mm/Kconfig
@@ -203,18 +203,6 @@ config VIRT_TO_BUS
 	def_bool y
 	depends on !ARCH_NO_VIRT_TO_BUS
 
-config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
-	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages"
-	default y
-	help
-	  Keeps unevictable pages off of the active and inactive pageout
-	  lists, so kswapd will not waste CPU time or have its balancing
-	  algorithms thrown off by scanning these pages.  Selecting this
-	  will use one page flag and increase the code size a little,
-	  say Y unless you know what you are doing.
-
-	  See Documentation/vm/unevictable-lru.txt for more information.
-
 config HAVE_MLOCK
 	bool
 	default y if MMU=y
Index: b/init/Kconfig
===================================================================
--- a/init/Kconfig
+++ b/init/Kconfig
@@ -954,6 +954,18 @@ config SLUB_DEBUG
 	  SLUB sysfs support. /sys/slab will not exist and there will be
 	  no support for cache validation etc.
 
+config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
+	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
+	default y
+	help
+	  Keeps unevictable pages off of the active and inactive pageout
+	  lists, so kswapd will not waste CPU time or have its balancing
+	  algorithms thrown off by scanning these pages.  Selecting this
+	  will use one page flag and increase the code size a little,
+	  say Y unless you know what you are doing.
+
+	  See Documentation/vm/unevictable-lru.txt for more information.
+
 config STRIP_ASM_SYMS
 	bool "Strip assembler-generated symbols during link"
 	default n


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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Minchan Kim]

Hi, Kosaki. 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 17:30:45 +0900 (JST)
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:

> Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
> 
> Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
> used only embedded people.

I think at least embedded guys don't need it. 
But I am not sure other guys. 

> Thus, moving it into embedded submenu is better.
> 
> 
> Signed-off-by: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
> Cc: Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>
> Cc: Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>
> ---
>  init/Kconfig |   12 ++++++++++++
>  mm/Kconfig   |   12 ------------
>  2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 12 deletions(-)
> 
> Index: b/mm/Kconfig
> ===================================================================
> --- a/mm/Kconfig
> +++ b/mm/Kconfig
> @@ -203,18 +203,6 @@ config VIRT_TO_BUS
>  	def_bool y
>  	depends on !ARCH_NO_VIRT_TO_BUS
>  
> -config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
> -	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages"
> -	default y
> -	help
> -	  Keeps unevictable pages off of the active and inactive pageout
> -	  lists, so kswapd will not waste CPU time or have its balancing
> -	  algorithms thrown off by scanning these pages.  Selecting this
> -	  will use one page flag and increase the code size a little,
> -	  say Y unless you know what you are doing.
> -
> -	  See Documentation/vm/unevictable-lru.txt for more information.
> -
>  config HAVE_MLOCK
>  	bool
>  	default y if MMU=y
> Index: b/init/Kconfig
> ===================================================================
> --- a/init/Kconfig
> +++ b/init/Kconfig
> @@ -954,6 +954,18 @@ config SLUB_DEBUG
>  	  SLUB sysfs support. /sys/slab will not exist and there will be
>  	  no support for cache validation etc.
>  
> +config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
> +	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
> +	default y

If you want to move, it would be better as following.

config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
       bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
       default !EMBEDDED

For embedded, it is disabled by default. 

> +	help
> +	  Keeps unevictable pages off of the active and inactive pageout
> +	  lists, so kswapd will not waste CPU time or have its balancing
> +	  algorithms thrown off by scanning these pages.  Selecting this
> +	  will use one page flag and increase the code size a little,
> +	  say Y unless you know what you are doing.
> +
> +	  See Documentation/vm/unevictable-lru.txt for more information.
> +
>  config STRIP_ASM_SYMS
>  	bool "Strip assembler-generated symbols during link"
>  	default n
> 
> 


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Kinds Regards
Minchan Kim

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[KOSAKI Motohiro]

> Hi, Kosaki. 
> 
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 17:30:45 +0900 (JST)
> KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:
> 
> > Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
> > 
> > Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
> > used only embedded people.
> 
> I think at least embedded guys don't need it. 
> But I am not sure other guys. 

perhaps, I and you live in another embedded world.


> > +config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
> > +	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
> > +	default y
> 
> If you want to move, it would be better as following.
> 
> config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
>        bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
>        default !EMBEDDED

No.
As far as I know, many embedded guys use this configuration.

they hate unexpected latency by reclaim. !UNEVICTABLE_LRU increase
unexpectability largely.




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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Minchan Kim]

On Wed, 13 May 2009 17:59:34 +0900 (JST)
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:

> > Hi, Kosaki. 
> > 
> > On Wed, 13 May 2009 17:30:45 +0900 (JST)
> > KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
> > > 
> > > Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
> > > used only embedded people.
> > 
> > I think at least embedded guys don't need it. 
> > But I am not sure other guys. 
> 
> perhaps, I and you live in another embedded world.


Each people always have a different viewpoint. 
:) 

> 
> > > +config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
> > > +	bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
> > > +	default y
> > 
> > If you want to move, it would be better as following.
> > 
> > config UNEVICTABLE_LRU
> >        bool "Add LRU list to track non-evictable pages" if EMBEDDED
> >        default !EMBEDDED
> 
> No.
> As far as I know, many embedded guys use this configuration.
> they hate unexpected latency by reclaim. !UNEVICTABLE_LRU increase
> unexpectability largely.

As I said previous(http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/16/209), Many embedded environment have a small ram. It doesn't have a big impact in such case. 

Let CCed embedded matainers. 
I won't have a objection if embedded maintainers ack this. 

Thanks for your effort for embdded. 

-- 
Kinds Regards
Minchan Kim

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[David Woodhouse]

On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 19:12 +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > No.
> > As far as I know, many embedded guys use this configuration.
> > they hate unexpected latency by reclaim. !UNEVICTABLE_LRU increase
> > unexpectability largely.
> 
> As I said previous(http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/16/209), Many embedded
> environment have a small ram. It doesn't have a big impact in such
> case. 
> 
> Let CCed embedded matainers. 
> I won't have a objection if embedded maintainers ack this. 

I probably wouldn't be cheerleading for it if you wanted to make it
optional when it wasn't before -- but I suppose we might as well
preserve the option under CONFIG_EMBEDDED if the alternative is to lose
it completely.

Acked-by: David Woodhouse <David.Woodhouse@intel.com>

-- 
David Woodhouse                            Open Source Technology Centre
David.Woodhouse@intel.com                              Intel Corporation

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Andi Kleen]

KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> writes:

> Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
>
> Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
> used only embedded people.
> Thus, moving it into embedded submenu is better.

Is there are any reason it cannot be just made unconditional unless 
CONFIG_MMU is disabled. It was never clear to me why this was a config
option at all.

-Andi

-- 
ak@linux.intel.com -- Speaking for myself only.

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Minchan Kim]

On Wed, 13 May 2009 11:37:17 +0100
David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 19:12 +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > > No.
> > > As far as I know, many embedded guys use this configuration.
> > > they hate unexpected latency by reclaim. !UNEVICTABLE_LRU increase
> > > unexpectability largely.
> > 
> > As I said previous(http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/16/209), Many embedded
> > environment have a small ram. It doesn't have a big impact in such
> > case. 
> > 
> > Let CCed embedded matainers. 
> > I won't have a objection if embedded maintainers ack this. 
> 
> I probably wouldn't be cheerleading for it if you wanted to make it
> optional when it wasn't before -- but I suppose we might as well
> preserve the option under CONFIG_EMBEDDED if the alternative is to lose
> it completely.

Thanks for good commeting.
If embedded maintainer don't have an obejction, me, too. :)

But Let's add following comment like CONFIG_AIO. 

"Disabling this option saves about 7k"

> 
> Acked-by: David Woodhouse <David.Woodhouse@intel.com>
> 
> -- 
> David Woodhouse                            Open Source Technology Centre
> David.Woodhouse@intel.com                              Intel Corporation
> 


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Minchan Kim

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[KOSAKI Motohiro]

2009/5/13 Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>:
> KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> writes:
>
>> Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
>>
>> Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
>> used only embedded people.
>> Thus, moving it into embedded submenu is better.
>
> Is there are any reason it cannot be just made unconditional unless
> CONFIG_MMU is disabled. It was never clear to me why this was a config
> option at all.

In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.

Is this enough explanation?

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Johannes Weiner]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 05:30:45PM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> Subject: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu
> 
> Almost people always turn on CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU. this configuration is
> used only embedded people.
> Thus, moving it into embedded submenu is better.
> 
> 
> Signed-off-by: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
> Cc: Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>
> Cc: Minchan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>

Acked-by: Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Andi Kleen]

> In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
> and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.

Well there's lots of code in the kernel and 7k doesn't seem worth bothering.
If you just save two pages of memory somewhere you can save more.

> Is this enough explanation?

It's not a very good one.

I would propose to just remove it or at least hide it completely
and only make it dependent on CONFIG_MMU inside Kconfig.

-Andi

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Minchan Kim]

Hi, Andi.

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> wrote:
>> In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
>> and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.
>
> Well there's lots of code in the kernel and 7k doesn't seem worth bothering.
> If you just save two pages of memory somewhere you can save more.
>
>> Is this enough explanation?
>
> It's not a very good one.
>
> I would propose to just remove it or at least hide it completely
> and only make it dependent on CONFIG_MMU inside Kconfig.

I thought this feature don't have a big impact on embedded.
At First, 7K is not important but as time goes by, it could be huge
with very small size feature for server or desktop.

So I wanted to add it with optionally. :)

In future, embedded also have a big ram then we can remove optional
config completely, I think.


> -Andi
>
> --
> ak@linux.intel.com -- Speaking for myself only.
>
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-- 
Kinds regards,
Minchan Kim

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Andi Kleen]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 08:41:21PM +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> Hi, Andi.
> 
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> wrote:
> >> In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
> >> and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.
> >
> > Well there's lots of code in the kernel and 7k doesn't seem worth bothering.
> > If you just save two pages of memory somewhere you can save more.
> >
> >> Is this enough explanation?
> >
> > It's not a very good one.
> >
> > I would propose to just remove it or at least hide it completely
> > and only make it dependent on CONFIG_MMU inside Kconfig.
> 
> I thought this feature don't have a big impact on embedded.
> At First, 7K is not important but as time goes by, it could be huge

I don't follow. 7k is never huge, also not when time goes by.

In general saving text size is not very fruitful compared to the
savings you can get from optimizing dynamic memory allocation.
Most of the memory waste is in dynamic allocation. That's easy
to see because even on small systems there's much more (several
magnitudes) dynamic memory than kernel text.

-Andi
-- 
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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[KOSAKI Motohiro]

>> In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
>> and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.
>
> Well there's lots of code in the kernel and 7k doesn't seem worth bothering.
> If you just save two pages of memory somewhere you can save more.
>
>> Is this enough explanation?
>
> It's not a very good one.
>
> I would propose to just remove it or at least hide it completely
> and only make it dependent on CONFIG_MMU inside Kconfig.

hm, if minchan ack this, I can remove this option completely.
but I dislike dpend on CONFIG_MMU. it because

1. this featuren don't depend CONFIG_MMU. that's bogus.
2. I don't test !MMU easily rather than MMU. IOW it make code quality risk.

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Minchan Kim]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:58 PM, KOSAKI Motohiro
<kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:
>>> In past days, I proposed this. but Minchan found this config bloat kernel 7kb
>>> and he claim embedded guys should have selectable chance. I agreed it.
>>
>> Well there's lots of code in the kernel and 7k doesn't seem worth bothering.
>> If you just save two pages of memory somewhere you can save more.
>>
>>> Is this enough explanation?
>>
>> It's not a very good one.
>>
>> I would propose to just remove it or at least hide it completely
>> and only make it dependent on CONFIG_MMU inside Kconfig.
>
> hm, if minchan ack this, I can remove this option completely.

In fact, I expected this feature has to be disable with default.
But, David and Hannes already acked with enable with default.

It means they don't have a size concern, too.
Hmm. If I don't misunderstood their thought, I agree Andi's suggestion.

Thanks for good discussion. Andi!

-- 
Kinds regards,
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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Andi Kleen]

> 1. this featuren don't depend CONFIG_MMU. that's bogus.

Without CONFIG_MMU everything is unevictable, so you don't need
to special case unevictable pages.  Or are you saying it should
use this code always?

-Andi


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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[Matt Mackall]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:37:17AM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 19:12 +0900, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > > No.
> > > As far as I know, many embedded guys use this configuration.
> > > they hate unexpected latency by reclaim. !UNEVICTABLE_LRU increase
> > > unexpectability largely.
> > 
> > As I said previous(http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/16/209), Many embedded
> > environment have a small ram. It doesn't have a big impact in such
> > case. 
> > 
> > Let CCed embedded matainers. 
> > I won't have a objection if embedded maintainers ack this. 
> 
> I probably wouldn't be cheerleading for it if you wanted to make it
> optional when it wasn't before -- but I suppose we might as well
> preserve the option under CONFIG_EMBEDDED if the alternative is to lose
> it completely.

As the person who introduced CONFIG_EMBEDDED, I've occasionally
thought we should rename it to CONFIG_NONSTANDARD to make the
semantics clearer. It's less about cell phones and more about going
way off the beaten path.

-- 
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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[David Woodhouse]

On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 09:34 -0500, Matt Mackall wrote:
> As the person who introduced CONFIG_EMBEDDED, I've occasionally
> thought we should rename it to CONFIG_NONSTANDARD to make the
> semantics clearer. It's less about cell phones and more about going
> way off the beaten path.

CONFIG_I_AM_NOT_AUNT_TILLIE

-- 
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David.Woodhouse@intel.com                              Intel Corporation

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Re: [PATCH] Kconfig: CONFIG_UNEVICTABLE_LRU move into EMBEDDED submenu

[KOSAKI Motohiro]

> > 1. this featuren don't depend CONFIG_MMU. that's bogus.
> 
> Without CONFIG_MMU everything is unevictable, so you don't need
> to special case unevictable pages.  Or are you saying it should
> use this code always?

Ah, I misparsed your messages.
I talked as the code is independent, but you talked worth is little.
hm, I think both are right.

Anyway, Minchan acked to remvoe config option, I'll do that.
Thanks.




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