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[2003:d8:2f31:700:3851:c66a:b6b9:3490]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-adec897ac25sm890207966b.157.2025.06.17.09.09.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 09:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <129fe808-4285-48fe-95b6-00ea19bd87af@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:09:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: netmem series needs some love and Acks from MM folks To: Harry Yoo , Mina Almasry , willy@infradead.org Cc: Byungchul Park , Jakub Kicinski , netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, kernel_team@skhynix.com, ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org, hawk@kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, davem@davemloft.net, john.fastabend@gmail.com, andrew+netdev@lunn.ch, asml.silence@gmail.com, toke@redhat.com, tariqt@nvidia.com, edumazet@google.com, pabeni@redhat.com, saeedm@nvidia.com, leon@kernel.org, ast@kernel.org, daniel@iogearbox.net, lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com, Liam.Howlett@oracle.com, vbabka@suse.cz, rppt@kernel.org, surenb@google.com, mhocko@suse.com, horms@kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, vishal.moola@gmail.com References: <20250609043225.77229-1-byungchul@sk.com> <20250609043225.77229-2-byungchul@sk.com> <20250609123255.18f14000@kernel.org> <20250610013001.GA65598@system.software.com> <20250611185542.118230c1@kernel.org> <20250613011305.GA18998@system.software.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DA577100007 X-Stat-Signature: 9y59d5hcnu83jke8sha98n6xstwu9p58 X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam04 X-HE-Tag: 1750176586-26160 X-HE-Meta: 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 D9+ZgA9A ix2doOSSsLX9CQ/+XMvyNM1kz+W+VJ0J9l85pCTU/dWX9IFAZjEW4H2BP+kEtjGMQ702PfTcJ3MTQUSn6m/w9AYYMInmURnN+SWrkrJcXejissDVioXHyGmDaEuaRW4Rnz6vzw+eaIYWr/B3tP86EqCt6Ve4KttvBE/PevUdlmm+EC3m+P1UnYT1KJKWEWg2dEAsgSNPuKeOkUzEGQQNo5jl00xVjz2ygPhWDhzXFNcs1ZBcVDRCtLsXYDax95iw/oy2oVMY7Eg5iwFx5qsLxAJsmCN4UxQBkn4orzIjMkernSTDVKjc8gH2DrwpnFXr28H+Ve0uYZuT4WmrtNFr/olzMUNv49PvSIBcYyteySwSv1mo9Heq19o+pxKl47DWYaxQwB4YC8HFoeYuKphc6d2CQYqRg2FI2YJZbuyRu91MOZJ/4lqr1dh1oeAFYuJggLBBodl9LceW5hG7vhlrDhc6owIlMXvBRW3hxB2MbmEWUSXoYejxV1/JDnH4JFip/Pms6VnJdvW69kuwQtye3S2vOZCoVD+8Hct1yIRj2helFEAJEMI7fcpcVSJv5Ii2DSTiq X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 17.06.25 04:31, Harry Yoo wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2025 at 07:19:07PM -0700, Mina Almasry wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 6:13 PM Byungchul Park wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 06:55:42PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote: >>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 10:30:01 +0900 Byungchul Park wrote: >>>>>> What's the intended relation between the types? >>>>> >>>>> One thing I'm trying to achieve is to remove pp fields from struct page, >>>>> and make network code use struct netmem_desc { pp fields; } instead of >>>>> sturc page for that purpose. >>>>> >>>>> The reason why I union'ed it with the existing pp fields in struct >>>>> net_iov *temporarily* for now is, to fade out the existing pp fields >>>>> from struct net_iov so as to make the final form like: >>>> >>>> I see, I may have mixed up the complaints there. I thought the effort >>>> was also about removing the need for the ref count. And Rx is >>>> relatively light on use of ref counting. >>>> >>>>>> netmem_ref exists to clearly indicate that memory may not be readable. >>>>>> Majority of memory we expect to allocate from page pool must be >>>>>> kernel-readable. What's the plan for reading the "single pointer" >>>>>> memory within the kernel? >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you're approaching this problem from the easiest and least >>>>> >>>>> No, I've never looked for the easiest way. My bad if there are a better >>>>> way to achieve it. What would you recommend? >>>> >>>> Sorry, I don't mean that the approach you took is the easiest way out. >>>> I meant that between Rx and Tx handling Rx is the easier part because >>>> we already have the suitable abstraction. It's true that we use more >>>> fields in page struct on Rx, but I thought Tx is also more urgent >>>> as there are open reports for networking taking references on slab >>>> pages. >>>> >>>> In any case, please make sure you maintain clear separation between >>>> readable and unreadable memory in the code you produce. >>> >>> Do you mean the current patches do not? If yes, please point out one >>> as example, which would be helpful to extract action items. >>> >> >> I think one thing we could do to improve separation between readable >> (pages/netmem_desc) and unreadable (net_iov) is to remove the struct >> netmem_desc field inside the net_iov, and instead just duplicate the >> pp/pp_ref_count/etc fields. The current code gives off the impression >> that net_iov may be a container of netmem_desc which is not really >> accurate. >> >> But I don't think that's a major blocker. I think maybe the real issue >> is that there are no reviews from any mm maintainers? > > Let's try changing the subject to draw some attention from MM people :) Hi, it worked! :P I hope Willy will find his way to this thread as well. > >> So I'm not 100% >> sure this is in line with their memdesc plans. I think probably >> patches 2->8 are generic netmem-ifications that are good to merge >> anyway, but I would say patch 1 and 9 need a reviewed by from someone >> on the mm side. Just my 2 cents. > > As someone who worked on the zpdesc series, I think it is pretty much > in line with the memdesc plans. > > I mean, it does differ a bit from the initial idea of generalizing it as > "bump" allocator, but overall, it's still aligned with the memdesc > plans, and looks like a starting point, IMHO. Just to summarize (not that there is any misunderstanding), the first step of the memdesc plan is simple: 1) have a dedicated data-structure we will allocate alter dynamically. 2) Make it overlay "struct page" for now in a way that doesn't break things 3) Convert all users of "struct page" to the new data-structure Later, the memdesc data-structure will then actually come be allocated dynamically, so "struct page" content will not apply anymore, and we can shrink "struct page". What I see in this patch is exactly 1) and 2). I am not 100% sure about existing "struct net_iov" and how that interacts with "struct page" overlay. I suspects it's just a dynamically allocated structure? Because this patch changes the layout of "struct net_iov", which is a bit confusing at first sight? -- Cheers, David / dhildenb