From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBA1E64012 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:26:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id D6C166B0083; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id CF4E36B0085; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:26:44 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id B6E696B0088; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:26:44 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0017.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.17]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CB96B0083 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtpin23.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1236B1A0768 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:26:44 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 82811385090.23.91EC9A6 Received: from mail.lichtvoll.de (lichtvoll.de [37.120.160.25]) by imf20.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68BF1C0012 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:25:35 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: imf20.hostedemail.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (imf20.hostedemail.com: domain of martin@lichtvoll.de designates 37.120.160.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=martin@lichtvoll.de ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-20220608; d=hostedemail.com; t=1732224266; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HsSVWISRU8lSa8B31rT5F63inj7YV70SxIvqJGk9LLdhGriez+UCMykuMc9O9oosnJlsmh dYp+qoT6ovFjlDFgRED4R1NJ3o3fiaSOiZlXQmBZL3twn9bqAr/iQOiH7tJQeUToN7szxg vGPhYDUNUyRU3HXHzqgh77JUmFm8t4s= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; imf20.hostedemail.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (imf20.hostedemail.com: domain of martin@lichtvoll.de designates 37.120.160.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=martin@lichtvoll.de ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hostedemail.com; s=arc-20220608; t=1732224266; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=qr8EncFIIAvG9tIgF5QxMs4376UrfnO8iYuvacIsgGw=; b=K02sT0sngvd4mm8kLHseia5XYNobrCl/pG+3obGw/uXcktVqbU2T+xgQkCZljBmeeWfU6W v3fhFsIGr+/q89hqemTHKsADZSl8UVycg7fKUFWZPiqu/fGX1sYFFA/+CqyixNwOhslCWG XeoEc6amE0d+Nl4rJXW9mGAakceAWiY= Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lichtvoll.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 975C08FC2D; Thu, 21 Nov 2024 21:26:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Martin Steigerwald To: Kent Overstreet , Shuah Khan Cc: Michal Hocko , Dave Chinner , Andrew Morton , Christoph Hellwig , Yafang Shao , jack@suse.cz, Christian Brauner , Alexander Viro , Paul Moore , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-bcachefs@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "conduct@kernel.org" , Shuah Khan Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2 v2] bcachefs: do not use PF_MEMALLOC_NORECLAIM Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 22:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <10576437.nUPlyArG6x@lichtvoll.de> In-Reply-To: References: <9efc2edf-c6d6-494d-b1bf-64883298150a@linuxfoundation.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A68BF1C0012 X-Stat-Signature: wc3kfp9tkob5rabiaudtobnruc16q9wg X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam05 X-HE-Tag: 1732224335-679954 X-HE-Meta: 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 OidllQ/6 FKlfw+TcR3zazMFChYdp9Q7icJb+EbRGuFuSLvU7x3792OyYvOV+knotESwKul5Vx82hQbAZrLvqvyCZoqir8qjxA/dK48VpE3Ard8R5+XPZf+/Z54Em3rdAk111pXTPJnlC84Y1dSHI7qx+t+UjIfTrAzmayuq0xry1loIk3YfL/ENwIECuE3hlU7nFFC6WR6GQ48mcz2EsRdk/z1eLP9RfhwXfLB3LNq969Mf8UTTxWe6t9B50SS7hUv4/07fLLGBfdIiTdiUnUO3whuskngVddndqG2B4qnEL5h/VzUqD1tnU= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Shuah, hi everyone. Shuah, I appreciate your effort to resolve the Code of Conduct issue. Also I make no judgment about the technical matter at hand. Basically I do= =20 not even have a clear idea on what it is about. So I am just commenting on= =20 the Code of Conduct enforcement process: Shuah Khan - 20.11.24, 23:21:06 MEZ: > I didn't pick up on your desire to apologize after the discussion in > our conversation. >=20 > Are you saying you will be happy to make amends with an apology after > the discussion and debate? Do you really think that power-playing Kent into submission by doing a=20 public apology is doing anything good to resolve the issue at hand? While it may not really compare to some of the wording Linus has used=20 before having been convinced to change his behavior=E2=80=A6 I do not agree= with=20 the wording Kent has used. I certainly do not condone it. But this forced public apology approach in my point of view is very likely= =20 just to cement the division instead of heal it. While I publicly disagreed= =20 with Kent before, I also publicly disagree with this kind of Code of=20 Conduct enforcement. I have seen similar patterns within the Debian=20 community and in my point of view this lead to the loss of several Debian=20 developers who contributed a lot to the project while leaving behind=20 frustration and unresolved conflict. No amount of power play is going to resolve this. Just exercising=20 authority is not doing any good in here. This needs mediation, not forced=20 public humiliation. To me, honestly written, this whole interaction feels a bit like I'd=20 imagine children may be fighting over a toy. With a majority of the=20 children grouping together to single out someone who does not appear to fit= =20 in at first glance. I mean no offense with that. This is just the impressio= n=20 I got so far. The whole interaction just does not remind me of respectful=20 communication between adult human beings. I have seen it with myself=E2=80= =A6 in=20 situations where it was challenging for me to access what I learned, for=20 whatever reason, I had been acting similarly to a child. So really no=20 offense meant. This is just an impression I got and wanted to mirror back=20 to you for your consideration. I'd make three changes to the current approach regarding Kent's behavior: 1) Take it to private mediation. 2) Move it from mail to actually talking with one another. Resolving=20 conflicts by mail exchange is hard. Maybe voice / video chat. Or meeting in= =20 person, in case it possible. In other words: *Talk to each other*! Mail is= =20 really very bad for things like that. 3) Assume good intentions! And the best first step for everyone involved may just be: Take a deep=20 breath and let it sit for a while. Maybe there is something to learn from=20 this for everyone involved, including myself. I have and claim no standing in kernel community. So take this for=20 whatever it is worth for you. Best, =2D-=20 Martin