From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DFDB22 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 04:36:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C14D1FD4A for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 04:36:39 +0000 (UTC) To: Ben Hutchings From: "Martin K. Petersen" References: <1400925225.6956.25.camel@dabdike.int.hansenpartnership.com> <20140525222923.GW15585@mwanda> <1401119598.3303.6.camel@dabdike> <1401224020.14454.92.camel@dabdike> <1401323745.14007.51.camel@deadeye.wl.decadent.org.uk> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 00:36:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1401323745.14007.51.camel@deadeye.wl.decadent.org.uk> (Ben Hutchings's message of "Thu, 29 May 2014 01:35:45 +0100") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: James Bottomley , Dan Carpenter , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [TOPIC] Encouraging more reviewers List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , >>>>> "Ben" == Ben Hutchings writes: Ben> I seem to recall one OEM formally requiring in-tree drivers for all Ben> components aside from graphics. But they usually wanted Ben> out-of-tree driver packages *as well*, since 'enterprise' customers Ben> do like to run old kernel versions. Cc: stable :) Ben> Driver development for a new generation of hardware may begin long Ben> before it is publicly announced, and may contain many false starts Ben> or temporary hacks to work around pre-release hardware or Ben> simulations. Somehow, that messy development branch needs to be Ben> turned into some semblance of coherent refactoring when sending Ben> upstream. Either that or you fork and rename the driver for the Ben> new generation, and send it upstream with no history at all. I agree that the history situation is different for completely new drivers. However, the problem at hand is code we've had in the kernel for a long time. It is still widely used but has bitrotted or is in a shape that would never get accepted into the kernel by today's standards. Vendors use arguments like "we developed and tested this outbox driver version x.y.z thoroughly in a 2.6.15 environment on i386. Didn't see any problems, therefore it works with every kernel a customer might run". Such a statement may carry some weight in a stable kernel interface world but it is completely meaningless in our case. -- Martin K. Petersen Oracle Linux Engineering