From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 695F3136663 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 10:32:11 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718274733; cv=none; b=QAbbkgtCD7TTfUFKr5y7qBCjaFUIKQkU8lrkOtF6ZHnATEptlhI3vdKcC2w9vp6znUVcAdpw0QomBPvf8IWCoLDMvpu94GDF+vGUqQ7fbOeFyxc4gSLZXEC2ozJGr2394hMM6nOBDc6BiF4Ylao2qhxhopKvrsVzz7RDq25VUf4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718274733; c=relaxed/simple; bh=dOBu9/M3+tGvYrmKsmbjI/2oMcbiOwt+m1HAEzEwc9E=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=jjZTxM1QJhA1SBTVm0MXk1TesqixJtUTcSmvYI3Y9/mEa/BjcjVDCDKQCxZ7bsdVVMi1lTmRFED6qxgkSMGa8NIz7LsDYy5zytD2BKQoVFDWy/DrEzzZyKcWbnCf503nI3886U/1f7kt32eBbF6UbP72qRkSPnkuKWdy2j8XiqU= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=leemhuis.info; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=leemhuis.info; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=leemhuis.info header.i=@leemhuis.info header.b=nnUi6Bul; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=leemhuis.info Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=leemhuis.info Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=leemhuis.info header.i=@leemhuis.info header.b="nnUi6Bul" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leemhuis.info; s=he214686; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From: Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:In-Reply-To: References; bh=dOBu9/M3+tGvYrmKsmbjI/2oMcbiOwt+m1HAEzEwc9E=; t=1718274731; x=1718706731; b=nnUi6BulOymODjLgAoLezA1x7DRHvMqXq31fzxUiY24MN6KH0lNuESz4Vz+QN 027Q8XmR4/Y2bp7n0v6dqhiDi2wKZ0Yg86peoHLLZ7w9dvmIREE3PorYEeuE+V34NYoSQtTLT2rlv +rahGUnpU/kmJoBWcmwMdWPRfdFsfYsyJUuAYF0IlBWgJ8SAGJ95XknLZpWTqzvNDUKC25UhZ9rfB T/89L8Ya8GxLLSccW0ZQ7Q7qr+PqWmsa+1dF/Ui9g9Nuowl6uEtEZS7RQE4kanR86Os1cs4an6RrA q5GJA/H/jj6OI2jKR4CavaeDC3/mgd5X/b9Ivx14qQ2I1APoSg==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8980:2478:8cde:aa2c:f324:937e]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1sHhkV-0005un-U8; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 12:32:08 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 12:32:07 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] regressions: our workflows are the biggest enemy To: "Liam R. Howlett" Cc: Guenter Roeck , Steven Rostedt , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <5182e50a-3d13-4edc-8f2a-a024e0588177@leemhuis.info> <20240612112622.21bf7c89@rorschach.local.home> <9b28bd22-f4b7-4bb4-8471-cb131347b6e8@roeck-us.net> <47793732-03f6-4cbb-a2a4-393ad9c96de9@leemhuis.info> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: en-US, de-DE Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; keydata= xsFNBFJ4AQ0BEADCz16x4kl/YGBegAsYXJMjFRi3QOr2YMmcNuu1fdsi3XnM+xMRaukWby47 JcsZYLDKRHTQ/Lalw9L1HI3NRwK+9ayjg31wFdekgsuPbu4x5RGDIfyNpd378Upa8SUmvHik apCnzsxPTEE4Z2KUxBIwTvg+snEjgZ03EIQEi5cKmnlaUynNqv3xaGstx5jMCEnR2X54rH8j QPvo2l5/79Po58f6DhxV2RrOrOjQIQcPZ6kUqwLi6EQOi92NS9Uy6jbZcrMqPIRqJZ/tTKIR OLWsEjNrc3PMcve+NmORiEgLFclN8kHbPl1tLo4M5jN9xmsa0OZv3M0katqW8kC1hzR7mhz+ Rv4MgnbkPDDO086HjQBlS6Zzo49fQB2JErs5nZ0mwkqlETu6emhxneAMcc67+ZtTeUj54K2y Iu8kk6ghaUAfgMqkdIzeSfhO8eURMhvwzSpsqhUs7pIj4u0TPN8OFAvxE/3adoUwMaB+/plk sNe9RsHHPV+7LGADZ6OzOWWftk34QLTVTcz02bGyxLNIkhY+vIJpZWX9UrfGdHSiyYThHCIy /dLz95b9EG+1tbCIyNynr9TjIOmtLOk7ssB3kL3XQGgmdQ+rJ3zckJUQapLKP2YfBi+8P1iP rKkYtbWk0u/FmCbxcBA31KqXQZoR4cd1PJ1PDCe7/DxeoYMVuwARAQABzSdUaG9yc3RlbiBM ZWVtaHVpcyA8bGludXhAbGVlbWh1aXMuaW5mbz7CwZQEEwEKAD4CGwMFCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsF FgIDAQACHgECF4AWIQSoq8a+lZZX4oPULXVytubvTFg9LQUCX31PIwUJFmtPkwAKCRBytubv TFg9LWsyD/4t3g4i2YVp8RoKAcOut0AZ7/uLSqlm8Jcbb+LeeuzjY9T3mQ4ZX8cybc1jRlsL JMYL8GD3a53/+bXCDdk2HhQKUwBJ9PUDbfWa2E/pnqeJeX6naLn1LtMJ78G9gPeG81dX5Yq+ g/2bLXyWefpejlaefaM0GviCt00kG4R/mJJpHPKIPxPbOPY2REzWPoHXJpi7vTOA2R8HrFg/ QJbnA25W55DzoxlRb/nGZYG4iQ+2Eplkweq3s3tN88MxzNpsxZp475RmzgcmQpUtKND7Pw+8 zTDPmEzkHcUChMEmrhgWc2OCuAu3/ezsw7RnWV0k9Pl5AGROaDqvARUtopQ3yEDAdV6eil2z TvbrokZQca2808v2rYO3TtvtRMtmW/M/yyR233G/JSNos4lODkCwd16GKjERYj+sJsW4/hoZ RQiJQBxjnYr+p26JEvghLE1BMnTK24i88Oo8v+AngR6JBxwH7wFuEIIuLCB9Aagb+TKsf+0c HbQaHZj+wSY5FwgKi6psJxvMxpRpLqPsgl+awFPHARktdPtMzSa+kWMhXC4rJahBC5eEjNmP i23DaFWm8BE9LNjdG8Yl5hl7Zx0mwtnQas7+z6XymGuhNXCOevXVEqm1E42fptYMNiANmrpA OKRF+BHOreakveezlpOz8OtUhsew9b/BsAHXBCEEOuuUg87BTQRSeAENARAAzu/3satWzly6 +Lqi5dTFS9+hKvFMtdRb/vW4o9CQsMqL2BJGoE4uXvy3cancvcyodzTXCUxbesNP779JqeHy s7WkF2mtLVX2lnyXSUBm/ONwasuK7KLz8qusseUssvjJPDdw8mRLAWvjcsYsZ0qgIU6kBbvY ckUWkbJj/0kuQCmmulRMcaQRrRYrk7ZdUOjaYmjKR+UJHljxLgeregyiXulRJxCphP5migoy ioa1eset8iF9fhb+YWY16X1I3TnucVCiXixzxwn3uwiVGg28n+vdfZ5lackCOj6iK4+lfzld z4NfIXK+8/R1wD9yOj1rr3OsjDqOaugoMxgEFOiwhQDiJlRKVaDbfmC1G5N1YfQIn90znEYc M7+Sp8Rc5RUgN5yfuwyicifIJQCtiWgjF8ttcIEuKg0TmGb6HQHAtGaBXKyXGQulD1CmBHIW zg7bGge5R66hdbq1BiMX5Qdk/o3Sr2OLCrxWhqMdreJFLzboEc0S13BCxVglnPqdv5sd7veb 0az5LGS6zyVTdTbuPUu4C1ZbstPbuCBwSwe3ERpvpmdIzHtIK4G9iGIR3Seo0oWOzQvkFn8m 2k6H2/Delz9IcHEefSe5u0GjIA18bZEt7R2k8CMZ84vpyWOchgwXK2DNXAOzq4zwV8W4TiYi FiIVXfSj185vCpuE7j0ugp0AEQEAAcLBfAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBKirxr6Vllfig9QtdXK25u9M WD0tBQJffU8wBQkWa0+jAAoJEHK25u9MWD0tv+0P/A47x8r+hekpuF2KvPpGi3M6rFpdPfeO RpIGkjQWk5M+oF0YH3vtb0+92J7LKfJwv7GIy2PZO2svVnIeCOvXzEM/7G1n5zmNMYGZkSyf x9dnNCjNl10CmuTYud7zsd3cXDku0T+Ow5Dhnk6l4bbJSYzFEbz3B8zMZGrs9EhqNzTLTZ8S Mznmtkxcbb3f/o5SW9NhH60mQ23bB3bBbX1wUQAmMjaDQ/Nt5oHWHN0/6wLyF4lStBGCKN9a TLp6E3100BuTCUCrQf9F3kB7BC92VHvobqYmvLTCTcbxFS4JNuT+ZyV+xR5JiV+2g2HwhxWW uC88BtriqL4atyvtuybQT+56IiiU2gszQ+oxR/1Aq+VZHdUeC6lijFiQblqV6EjenJu+pR9A 7EElGPPmYdO1WQbBrmuOrFuO6wQrbo0TbUiaxYWyoM9cA7v7eFyaxgwXBSWKbo/bcAAViqLW ysaCIZqWxrlhHWWmJMvowVMkB92uPVkxs5IMhSxHS4c2PfZ6D5kvrs3URvIc6zyOrgIaHNzR 8AF4PXWPAuZu1oaG/XKwzMqN/Y/AoxWrCFZNHE27E1RrMhDgmyzIzWQTffJsVPDMQqDfLBhV ic3b8Yec+Kn+ExIF5IuLfHkUgIUs83kDGGbV+wM8NtlGmCXmatyavUwNCXMsuI24HPl7gV2h n7RI In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1718274731;9015707c; X-HE-SMSGID: 1sHhkV-0005un-U8 On 12.06.24 20:35, Liam R. Howlett wrote: > * Thorsten Leemhuis [240612 12:08]: >> On 12.06.24 17:50, Guenter Roeck wrote: >>> On 6/12/24 08:26, Steven Rostedt wrote: >>>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 08:34:42 +0200 >>>> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > >>>> I think this should be discussed >>>> at Maintainers Summit, and perhaps we should start "encouraging" people >>>> to change their workflows. Especially if we have hard data showing >>>> that it's not working. > [...] > Although, I'm a little concerned about what I'm singing up for here... See the four maintainers summit proposals I just sent for an impression where I see trouble and how to fix that: https://lore.kernel.org/all/c6be1b86-f224-417c-a501-6c778999a04f@leemhuis.info/ Ohh, and btw for those that worry that their subsystem is one that from my point of view is not handling regressions well: if mails from my other email account (the one dedicated to regressions tracking) rarely show up in your inbox/your subsystem's mailing list, then things are most likely fine. Ciao, Thorsten