From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4D4E2E03E6 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760617140; cv=none; b=Di63vLTa73k4i61MnysQ42BkJAadB2xhpkBAIwaAknw58lYDpHvwoiDe6fNir0ai74nI2t6g0X4XW3NDjq+esv6fiYT92y5RVQToZKeiV3Grrqvd99FzVZ9MmQyM+Qvv4Ac9E4XabgDXdrT6+BirFEOBMOWj+lWRbj2AfZvwJok= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760617140; c=relaxed/simple; bh=oBhPN5cwsbedxtoHeA6FY47vyOlwE/+bzT+GqOnHHUc=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=Ne9uoJSMmYq8E/nl4cWAsyOBRzOAbokP7tnn6pHEALrXEaUZmIbC4eJPoqFEtVnt+Wk02bvpyJFSV0f7dCQ6k6Z3Aj9xdTTaVd5vuLxSnA/AXb8Rn98l4J26oe12kOdiVf6bknuu14gQtm4owGnOjCGzF9XNSs+qcTCQHcsj4cc= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=a/RKjk8Q; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="a/RKjk8Q" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2767CC4CEF1; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:18:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1760617140; bh=oBhPN5cwsbedxtoHeA6FY47vyOlwE/+bzT+GqOnHHUc=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=a/RKjk8QxHHu651C4WWk1kPuxM2mtpZNtCkkS0GB1q2OunG2sBf7yTf4dRTxjJ8Qo 2icYrghiVcj4SUDyeJhaVRhJ44q5U+044QKWZ9o/OZeCLB76pcorzGk7Hf7OSrTHWG 9r4veH9i5TweGxiftR09dHJVNKu5r4/kQ3xQEecm5YtE9UcYjG05ryaDE/cDsRuBwp Rrf2gJXt78R9hNLv5/7FXtEvTKWoQeAuIUeS7dABcnrWjhqYRd4h77OAwrMxzJWJBK UUYu7ztWedkZlfns2TZ/ychUPrqG/YYbmICPOr92n2VP5pQaudOJ45gBFnISJiJC+l RjydnZL3mTnZg== Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 14:18:57 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Replacing Link trailers To: Simona Vetter , Steven Rostedt Cc: Johannes Berg , Mathieu Desnoyers , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <6b188d9e-3d47-4a30-8452-3e57e09cf8e3@efficios.com> <8572506ccdaa6211e177d5976a74737268486492.camel@sipsolutions.net> <20251014153521.693907a1@gandalf.local.home> <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> From: Hans de Goede Content-Language: en-US, nl In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, On 16-Oct-25 12:16 PM, Simona Vetter wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 at 00:22, Steven Rostedt wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 00:01:38 +0200 >> Johannes Berg wrote: >> >>> So yeah, circling back to "benevolent" -- for me, this has definitely >>> broken the "benevolent" part and a lot of trust. But that's fine, I can >>> also do a job that heavily resolves around following a manager's >>> arbitrary whims. But my heart won't be in it. >> >> Yes it does appear that we all have extra work to do because one person >> doesn't like the current method. I don't think I saw anyone else complain >> about the "useless" link either. Maybe I missed it. But currently it's all >> been "Alright, fine, I'll work around this" and not one "Oh Great! This is >> most definitely helpful!", like what happened when Linus created "git". >> >> I'm currently looking for someone to help me with my maintainership. Masami >> came on board, but what happened was that he basically maintains all things >> "probe" related and I do everything else. That split still takes up more >> time than we have designated. >> >> Unfortunately, I've had many people say to me "I don't ever want to be a >> top level maintainer" and "better you than me", which makes it very >> difficult to find a helper. This discussion isn't helping with that >> perspective either. > > +1 on both Steve's observation and Johannes' entire mail. +1 from me on both too. Or as Geert put it: "So, can we please get our Link:-tags back, and get back to real work (or vacation ;-)?" Regards, Hans