From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mout-xforward.gmx.net (mout-xforward.gmx.net [82.165.159.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A8A53D6A; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 21:07:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1664744836; bh=rUPWwxQghqBoTsy1GL3TJG6JijaqINIBDDwimlKpQ2A=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=WURI/5rrVB0y11dS4o5pEw4pdy7ok84JQ7pRHat9OLq7xmLN19WrDrO+sGeNF6zaG ZXNDoTxvG/EP4RIMJ93z6lBrvXnx5O3eAmKtL2iwyQH3PGx3dfk5B+sANNeqgtrZsq 3AQqkwN7iEfLYbTwq8ibOsfPQGOwyn6aH+CYvdgA= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.13.110.23] ([143.244.37.73]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCbEp-1oWXbc30Lb-009eAV; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 23:07:15 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 21:07:13 +0000 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" To: Willy Tarreau Cc: Konstantin Ryabitsev , Theodore Ts'o , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg KH , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Mario Limonciello References: <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> <79bb605a-dab8-972d-aa4a-a5e5ee49387c@gmx.com> <20221002150522.ul4nbtfawqjhnsag@meerkat.local> <20221002205430.GC22129@1wt.eu> From: "Artem S. Tashkinov" In-Reply-To: <20221002205430.GC22129@1wt.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:OOGCfeol/3qU55wo6wmgNNZwCIlcy1sEWv8KdnSgTkop3eIwVg8 Hi80881OmBGlcHf6GL59BudNRA5SF9LUHl7icLNG18ygjeXhLlwT2f+iKHk8VvTFbodc35w lmyM36KqhosAzMRs46ogkP5Sxy5BgGZX0HcSkONrlalo4bv3gdZl0W0XgoUnaFiwO18kutB SmfD6QWErw/MRbP8wbZFg== X-Spam-Flag: YES X-UI-Out-Filterresults: junk:10;V03:K0:LXbn3my7Qjg=:sEapeLsGTqe45Xt8L0+hmV6R jNmuWsa0yQeYKgUHxjxVGhEXUW4Xm3lGJx+LwW86X4Bf1O1cXn8NMM+piTr4zJORUcKoKb8OF 8jVt5JS/S+OK/bk/MYhw074I2AwdcDmL+XsdHndr8qN6Hw7/jqFe5OqYcfgas6svDKhZSBukP cm6re0VgDe/oPmIaI4NkIAT7D7EaGUTJLIFsTnqNebGcNaALaLuFz/Gs/bvfXhdiGEPB+64j5 3O3Pftz2ex6khQZQDUI9lAe1D7dYO1SkoMtZ/nMa/nWO72e8lewL99JwSIO1sJBGCSx4Zv2RH tFNRBT/6C4+7ypYuPeuSkN3fmKk3KmXxYhqnPPWaXc2JrKBxJw6syeKPQvrEAfSh1IFT8BuQf 9gFNh5V5YxwDzFI+rn084gnXH94eiodorZNQ3XlW4Jv6sXXSUsh/xSqcjHcawdfMrRvRd5T0f XdeAnQ8/vjE7iFb6OdoDDmyJ6vZMK/p8v2n7NyIxaZD5Cl3ZHiRHLVg5cAL1rVlhBmznpdpvk xSI0IP7XSQ9UiKXQythbmKeLrG2snuEHtFQaSyU2/Emqlc7qhTzAb4e6BO85Fm3Io99xwh8ci wHg+8/md1lEjwEBDdS2E895LqsJzobQCPtXy4xWl1e9y1+F4uymfTOojmJHuegDc+tT3mk7Wi orKkUXKAtBd6EjP7cOfLO1p9U8lwjUZFxgCE5d6dgdK4riyAEXQAgEM0O8llXByG3UAOSHdlA DOPOuJmZAAwfGqOUTkMavzIfNSnmVRDZBYyIkk9IzbhQx+1gvRplkAO35jqUY8f+/mhdJUnat QzGDAhtuLgUjvO/kEVVC7tkYoJJJsHI23eprtx59BmLB+NRnpBXQG0ruWIohDdszPhbbFe4BI yUhJqFl6+3o7U/gD8nSHkOESTNGifztjNQcd3JnMuMOmgJ1oc62FTv3PIsfGrachhGQqeysLV ViDN3VvoAHbmgFn1+PuvmuvZmtDhkchJC5t5AoQ5+d6BBNxSHJd8an93lHn23yQQnR98KE64D 6sNd6EcWBY4Hjt2q7woaxOPWRG006poJTVZl1OgWU8esYbDIuIhZhFxPwa2PN+vfZhNRuFk5X 5v78j70JCFhBwhIkKUpQI9DpjflrTtJCqWu+u+dhoGHyjT0v1H8sVc44OSl3ZytspITffmwOI AglF7eM5STOLExjidm55Sq4HOGMfYKv97lRSG4j79PzpSw== On 10/2/22 20:54, Willy Tarreau wrote: > On Sun, Oct 02, 2022 at 07:43:19PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: >> Again, to remind everyone, bugzilla sees around ~20 bug reports >> _weekly_. There are hundreds of active of kernel developers. That means >> for a single bug report maybe a couple of people will receive maybe a >> few emails per week. >> >> Is this really an _issue_? >> >> Why are people are now blowing stuff out of proportion for no reason? > > Because the approach is wrong. As I explained it gives a false sense to > the reporter that their issue is being handled while the simple fact tha= t > a message was sent to a person is in no way an engagement to do anything > about it. LKML is a broadcast area. Everyone hopes someone else will > respond and that eventually happens. When the reports are targetted, it No, it doesn't happen. Should I open LKML and send you a hundred of unreplied emails over the past year alone? > puts pressure on the few developers receiving the message who know that > it's unlikely anyone else will deal with that report. "Pressure", "spam", I've completely lost you. My first proposal was to let people _unsubscribe_ which takes a _minute_ if they hate this kind of workflow. And then I calculated how many emails a particular developer may receive. In the worst case scenario fewer than five in a week. What a drama. Just before I GTFO I will leave this bug report here (already posted it here but maybe I need to do it again and again): https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D204807 Tell me honestly how ~255 comments, and a ton of collaboration over the span of 2.5 years can be managed using email. > >> This conversation alone has already seen close to three dozen emails an= d >> no one is complaining. > > Because it's easy to ignore. Try to setup this conversation in your > favorite bug tracker and you'll feel alone discussing with yourself. > This is a great indication that participation is much more powerful > in the mailing list model than in the bug tracker model. OK, let's kill the damn thing. Let's have random emails with duplicated issues over 50+ mailing lists no one sees, maybe some of them are replied to. Maybe 1% of them are actually dealt with. After all, it's all for fun despite > 95% of kernel contributions coming from people who are really well paid working for major corporations such as Intel and AMD. Regards, Artem