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(was: Re: kernel.org tooling update) To: Konstantin Ryabitsev , users@kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev References: <20251209-roaring-hidden-alligator-068eea@lemur> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: de-DE, en-US Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; keydata= xsFNBFJ4AQ0BEADCz16x4kl/YGBegAsYXJMjFRi3QOr2YMmcNuu1fdsi3XnM+xMRaukWby47 JcsZYLDKRHTQ/Lalw9L1HI3NRwK+9ayjg31wFdekgsuPbu4x5RGDIfyNpd378Upa8SUmvHik apCnzsxPTEE4Z2KUxBIwTvg+snEjgZ03EIQEi5cKmnlaUynNqv3xaGstx5jMCEnR2X54rH8j QPvo2l5/79Po58f6DhxV2RrOrOjQIQcPZ6kUqwLi6EQOi92NS9Uy6jbZcrMqPIRqJZ/tTKIR OLWsEjNrc3PMcve+NmORiEgLFclN8kHbPl1tLo4M5jN9xmsa0OZv3M0katqW8kC1hzR7mhz+ Rv4MgnbkPDDO086HjQBlS6Zzo49fQB2JErs5nZ0mwkqlETu6emhxneAMcc67+ZtTeUj54K2y Iu8kk6ghaUAfgMqkdIzeSfhO8eURMhvwzSpsqhUs7pIj4u0TPN8OFAvxE/3adoUwMaB+/plk sNe9RsHHPV+7LGADZ6OzOWWftk34QLTVTcz02bGyxLNIkhY+vIJpZWX9UrfGdHSiyYThHCIy /dLz95b9EG+1tbCIyNynr9TjIOmtLOk7ssB3kL3XQGgmdQ+rJ3zckJUQapLKP2YfBi+8P1iP rKkYtbWk0u/FmCbxcBA31KqXQZoR4cd1PJ1PDCe7/DxeoYMVuwARAQABzSdUaG9yc3RlbiBM ZWVtaHVpcyA8bGludXhAbGVlbWh1aXMuaW5mbz7CwZQEEwEKAD4CGwMFCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsF FgIDAQACHgECF4AWIQSoq8a+lZZX4oPULXVytubvTFg9LQUCaOO74gUJHfEI0wAKCRBytubv TFg9Lc4iD/4omf2z88yGmior2f1BCQTAWxI2Em3S4EJY2+Drs8ZrJ1vNvdWgBrqbOtxN6xHF uvrpM6nbYIoNyZpsZrqS1mCA4L7FwceFBaT9CTlQsZLVV/vQvh2/3vbj6pQbCSi7iemXklF7 y6qMfA7rirvojSJZ2mi6tKIQnD2ndVhSsxmo/mAAJc4tiEL+wkdaX1p7bh2Ainp6sfxTqL6h z1kYyjnijpnHaPgQ6GQeGG1y+TSQFKkb/FylDLj3b3efzyNkRjSohcauTuYIq7bniw7sI8qY KUuUkrw8Ogi4e6GfBDgsgHDngDn6jUR2wDAiT6iR7qsoxA+SrJDoeiWS/SK5KRgiKMt66rx1 Jq6JowukzNxT3wtXKuChKP3EDzH9aD+U539szyKjfn5LyfHBmSfR42Iz0sofE4O89yvp0bYz GDmlgDpYWZN40IFERfCSxqhtHG1X6mQgxS0MknwoGkNRV43L3TTvuiNrsy6Mto7rrQh0epSn +hxwwS0bOTgJQgOO4fkTvto2sEBYXahWvmsEFdLMOcAj2t7gJ+XQLMsBypbo94yFYfCqCemJ +zU5X8yDUeYDNXdR2veePdS3Baz23/YEBCOtw+A9CP0U4ImXzp82U+SiwYEEQIGWx+aVjf4n RZ/LLSospzO944PPK+Na+30BERaEjx04MEB9ByDFdfkSbM7BTQRSeAENARAAzu/3satWzly6 +Lqi5dTFS9+hKvFMtdRb/vW4o9CQsMqL2BJGoE4uXvy3cancvcyodzTXCUxbesNP779JqeHy s7WkF2mtLVX2lnyXSUBm/ONwasuK7KLz8qusseUssvjJPDdw8mRLAWvjcsYsZ0qgIU6kBbvY ckUWkbJj/0kuQCmmulRMcaQRrRYrk7ZdUOjaYmjKR+UJHljxLgeregyiXulRJxCphP5migoy ioa1eset8iF9fhb+YWY16X1I3TnucVCiXixzxwn3uwiVGg28n+vdfZ5lackCOj6iK4+lfzld z4NfIXK+8/R1wD9yOj1rr3OsjDqOaugoMxgEFOiwhQDiJlRKVaDbfmC1G5N1YfQIn90znEYc M7+Sp8Rc5RUgN5yfuwyicifIJQCtiWgjF8ttcIEuKg0TmGb6HQHAtGaBXKyXGQulD1CmBHIW zg7bGge5R66hdbq1BiMX5Qdk/o3Sr2OLCrxWhqMdreJFLzboEc0S13BCxVglnPqdv5sd7veb 0az5LGS6zyVTdTbuPUu4C1ZbstPbuCBwSwe3ERpvpmdIzHtIK4G9iGIR3Seo0oWOzQvkFn8m 2k6H2/Delz9IcHEefSe5u0GjIA18bZEt7R2k8CMZ84vpyWOchgwXK2DNXAOzq4zwV8W4TiYi FiIVXfSj185vCpuE7j0ugp0AEQEAAcLBfAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBKirxr6Vllfig9QtdXK25u9M WD0tBQJo47viBQkd8QjTAAoJEHK25u9MWD0tCH8P/1b+AZ8K3D4TCBzXNS0muN6pLnISzFa0 cWcylwxX2TrZeGpJkg14v2R0cDjLRre9toM44izLaz4SKyfgcBSj9XET0103cVXUKt6SgT1o tevoEqFMKKp3vjDpKEnrcOSOCnfH9W0mXx/jDWbjlKbBlN7UBVoZD/FMM5Ul0KSVFJ9Uij0Z S2WAg50NQi71NBDPcga21BMajHKLFzb4wlBWSmWyryXI6ouabvsbsLjkW3IYl2JupTbK3viH pMRIZVb/serLqhJgpaakqgV7/jDplNEr/fxkmhjBU7AlUYXe2BRkUCL5B8KeuGGvG0AEIQR0 dP6QlNNBV7VmJnbU8V2X50ZNozdcvIB4J4ncK4OznKMpfbmSKm3t9Ui/cdEK+N096ch6dCAh AeZ9dnTC7ncr7vFHaGqvRC5xwpbJLg3xM/BvLUV6nNAejZeAXcTJtOM9XobCz/GeeT9prYhw 8zG721N4hWyyLALtGUKIVWZvBVKQIGQRPtNC7s9NVeLIMqoH7qeDfkf10XL9tvSSDY6KVl1n K0gzPCKcBaJ2pA1xd4pQTjf4jAHHM4diztaXqnh4OFsu3HOTAJh1ZtLvYVj5y9GFCq2azqTD pPI3FGMkRipwxdKGAO7tJVzM7u+/+83RyUjgAbkkkD1doWIl+iGZ4s/Jxejw1yRH0R5/uTaB MEK4 In-Reply-To: <20251209-roaring-hidden-alligator-068eea@lemur> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-PPP-Message-ID: <177209547256.1134791.8321300512533618421@mxe9fb.netcup.net> X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd-worker-8404 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 553A067458 X-NC-CID: lESznZmD+LAHxjIIu4i0SeT/r3er2Bb6U67qTTgKIhC63ZRLrTY= On 12/10/25 05:48, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > > ### Bugzilla Lo! I wonder if we should slowly and publicly start decommission bugzilla in areas where it's not working well today. I have a few reasons for that: > It may be time to kill bugzilla: > > - despite periodic "we're not dead yet" emails, it doesn't appear very > active > - the upgrade path to 6.0 is broken for us due to bugzilla abandoning the > 5.2 development branch and continuing with 5.1 * It looks like we will decommission Bugzilla anyway, and a replacement is afaics likely quite a while (years?) away -- so what is there now will likely be kept running for a while. * Bugzilla at the same time since a few years now is known to not working well, as many reports (including good ones) never get a reply -- among others because the list of products/components is not kept in sync, so many reports never reach the right developers (see https://lwn.net/Articles/910740/ and the second and third links there for the more complete backstory; things are afaics round about the same from what I see when occasionally looking at bugzilla for regression reports worth forwarding by mail – and that is really hard to watch, as it feels bad to see people spending time on something that is most likely not leading to anything). * Statements like "Dear Deity, I do wish kernel MM bugzilla would just go away. Sigh." (akpm recently in https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260206121151.dea3633d1f0ded7bbf49c22e@linux-foundation.org/) "Slowly start publicly decommissioning Bugzilla" could look like this: * Prevent new bugs from being submitted against products/components where the developers/subsystems are not engaging in Bugzilla (either directly or through replies by mail). That would make people like akpm happy afaics. I'm willing to help with talking to subsystems and adjusting settings in bugzilla. * Create a new front page that tells users that they most likely are in the wrong place. The text could look like this: """ Welcome! Note: The kernel.org bugzilla is slowly being decommissioned! This bug tracker is a kind of failed experiment, which at the same time still is useful sometimes and thus for now kept alive. Due to this and how vendors utilize the Linux kernel, you are most likely in the wrong place to report your bug. To find the right place, check the Linux kernel's [MAINTAINERS file](https://docs.kernel.org/process/maintainers.html). Most of the time it will tell you to report bugs by email with some mailing lists in CC. Bugs with all the kernel's modern graphics drivers, on the other hand, [must be submitted to a Gitlab instance](https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm) – and a small number of subsystems want reports in issue trackers of dedicated Github projects or this bug tracker. For more details on this and reporting Linux kernel bugs in general, see the [official step-by-step guide on reporting issues](https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html#step-by-step-guide-how-to-report-issues-to-the-kernel-maintainers). It covers all the important aspects, including one that is often missed: In case somebody else compiled your Linux kernel, you most likely have to report bugs to said vendor – like Linux Mint, Red Hat, Ubuntu, or SUSE. That is because the majority of the Linux developers only care for bugs occurring with kernels built from Linux sources that are pristine (aka "vanilla") or nearly so. Kernels using independently developed kernel modules are therefore just as unsuitable for reporting bugs upstream. """ Sigh, too much text, but you get the idea. Ciao, Thorsten