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Tue, 23 Sep 2025 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.14] ([38.175.187.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8926c6da1cb9f-55bbf14c47esm3019115173.41.2025.09.23.10.02.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Sep 2025 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2025 11:02:37 -0600 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] resources for promoting healthy communities To: dan.j.williams@intel.com, James Bottomley , ksummit@lists.linux.dev References: <572009db624de21099e08f28604f4b8e6a472cf2.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <68d1f6173b299_1c79100e6@dwillia2-mobl4.notmuch> Content-Language: en-US From: Shuah Khan In-Reply-To: <68d1f6173b299_1c79100e6@dwillia2-mobl4.notmuch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9/22/25 19:21, dan.j.williams@intel.com wrote: > James Bottomley wrote: >> We talk a lot about community health and maintainer burn out but what >> struck me watching Hans' talk about this: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Q8nIzEG6c >> >> was that he relied on his employer to help him thorough his burnout >> problems. While this reflects very creditably on Red Hat it struck me >> that quite a few of us probably have employers who would be less >> sympathetic to the idea that issues caused by being an open source >> maintainer should become their problem, especially if they were >> spilling over into internal job functions. So I went looking for >> community resources that could be called on and found, rather >> distressingly given the amount that people talk about this, that there >> are none. The best I can find was the session that happened in the >> Kernel Summit track: >> >> https://lpc.events/event/17/contributions/1574/ >> >> But that was a one-off rather than a resource that anyone can call on >> at any time. > > That was indeed a useful session, thanks to Shuah for organizing. I took > advantage of the offer for a follow-up session with Dr. Chance. > >> So the topic I'd like to raise is what should we as a >> community actually be providing to help people through burn out and >> other community health issues? We could just continue on as we are now >> which is pretty much nothing official but various community members >> will be happy to help (although good luck finding them listed >> anywhere). > > Speaking for myself, it is not clear that a list makes the problem > better. If the number of community members willing to help is larger > than the number of folks willing to be explicitly listed, does that > injure scaling? > > That said, if you are having a hard time, do reach out to peers, do not > wait for a list. > >> We could make the self help support more official by providing a >> mailing list and possibly a wiki of volunteers specifically for the >> purpose. > > Steven has talked about this, and I am supportive. > > Additionally, one of the developments since that Plumbers session that I > believe helps with burnout and conflict is more offlist collaboration. > For example, subsystem specific conference calls, subsystem chat > channels, and if you are lucky enough to live near a critical mass of > developers, occasional gatherings for drinks and catching up, helps > relieve pressure and build community. > >> Or, we could even decide that this is a serious enough problem to ask >> the LF if it would be amenable to providing us with some resources to >> help, thinks like organizing regular sessions like the plumbers one >> above and perhaps offering 1:1 video counseling and other resources. > > I do think aspects of this topic are in scope for Shuah's Mentorship > Series, for more opportunities to share what works and what does not > work in navigating a Linux career. > > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/lf-live-mentorship-series/ I agree - I can plan upon including navigating Linux career in 2026 content. LPC is a good place to recruit people to host them. > > There are also training and development resources that many folks have > access to through $employer. This is a good option. > > I do wonder what the uptake was on the sponsored sessions with Dr. > Chance to inform if this is a resource Linux community needs access to > on a regular basis. Is this problem is getting worse, better, or staying > the same over time? > Good to have this data for planning the series and determining the level of help. thanks, -- Shuah