[MAINTAINER SUMMIT] resources for promoting healthy communities

[MAINTAINER SUMMIT] resources for promoting healthy communities

[James Bottomley]

We talk a lot about community health and maintainer burn out but what
struck me watching Hans' talk about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Q8nIzEG6c

was that he relied on his employer to help him thorough his burnout
problems.  While this reflects very creditably on Red Hat it struck me
that quite a few of us probably have employers who would be less
sympathetic to the idea that issues caused by being an open source
maintainer should become their problem, especially if they were
spilling over into internal job functions.  So I went looking for
community resources that could be called on and found, rather
distressingly given the amount that people talk about this, that there
are none.  The best I can find was the session that happened in the
Kernel Summit track:

https://lpc.events/event/17/contributions/1574/

But that was a one-off rather than a resource that anyone can call on
at any time.  So the topic I'd like to raise is what should we as a
community actually be providing to help people through burn out and
other community health issues?  We could just continue on as we are now
which is pretty much nothing official but various community members
will be happy to help (although good luck finding them listed
anywhere).  We could make the self help support more official by
providing a mailing list and possibly a wiki of volunteers specifically
for the purpose.  Or, we could even decide that this is a serious
enough problem to ask the LF if it would be amenable to providing us
with some resources to help, thinks like organizing regular sessions
like the plumbers one above and perhaps offering 1:1 video counseling
and other resources.

Regards,

James

Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] resources for promoting healthy communities

[dan.j.williams]

James Bottomley wrote:
> We talk a lot about community health and maintainer burn out but what
> struck me watching Hans' talk about this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Q8nIzEG6c
> 
> was that he relied on his employer to help him thorough his burnout
> problems.  While this reflects very creditably on Red Hat it struck me
> that quite a few of us probably have employers who would be less
> sympathetic to the idea that issues caused by being an open source
> maintainer should become their problem, especially if they were
> spilling over into internal job functions.  So I went looking for
> community resources that could be called on and found, rather
> distressingly given the amount that people talk about this, that there
> are none.  The best I can find was the session that happened in the
> Kernel Summit track:
> 
> https://lpc.events/event/17/contributions/1574/
> 
> But that was a one-off rather than a resource that anyone can call on
> at any time.

That was indeed a useful session, thanks to Shuah for organizing. I took
advantage of the offer for a follow-up session with Dr. Chance.

> So the topic I'd like to raise is what should we as a
> community actually be providing to help people through burn out and
> other community health issues?  We could just continue on as we are now
> which is pretty much nothing official but various community members
> will be happy to help (although good luck finding them listed
> anywhere).

Speaking for myself, it is not clear that a list makes the problem
better. If the number of community members willing to help is larger
than the number of folks willing to be explicitly listed, does that
injure scaling?

That said, if you are having a hard time, do reach out to peers, do not
wait for a list.

> We could make the self help support more official by providing a
> mailing list and possibly a wiki of volunteers specifically for the
> purpose.

Steven has talked about this, and I am supportive.

Additionally, one of the developments since that Plumbers session that I
believe helps with burnout and conflict is more offlist collaboration.
For example, subsystem specific conference calls, subsystem chat
channels, and if you are lucky enough to live near a critical mass of
developers, occasional gatherings for drinks and catching up, helps
relieve pressure and build community.

> Or, we could even decide that this is a serious enough problem to ask
> the LF if it would be amenable to providing us with some resources to
> help, thinks like organizing regular sessions like the plumbers one
> above and perhaps offering 1:1 video counseling and other resources.

I do think aspects of this topic are in scope for Shuah's Mentorship
Series, for more opportunities to share what works and what does not
work in navigating a Linux career.

https://events.linuxfoundation.org/lf-live-mentorship-series/

There are also training and development resources that many folks have
access to through $employer.

I do wonder what the uptake was on the sponsored sessions with Dr.
Chance to inform if this is a resource Linux community needs access to
on a regular basis. Is this problem is getting worse, better, or staying
the same over time?

Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] resources for promoting healthy communities

[Shuah Khan]

On 9/22/25 19:21, dan.j.williams@intel.com wrote:
> James Bottomley wrote:
>> We talk a lot about community health and maintainer burn out but what
>> struck me watching Hans' talk about this:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Q8nIzEG6c
>>
>> was that he relied on his employer to help him thorough his burnout
>> problems.  While this reflects very creditably on Red Hat it struck me
>> that quite a few of us probably have employers who would be less
>> sympathetic to the idea that issues caused by being an open source
>> maintainer should become their problem, especially if they were
>> spilling over into internal job functions.  So I went looking for
>> community resources that could be called on and found, rather
>> distressingly given the amount that people talk about this, that there
>> are none.  The best I can find was the session that happened in the
>> Kernel Summit track:
>>
>> https://lpc.events/event/17/contributions/1574/
>>
>> But that was a one-off rather than a resource that anyone can call on
>> at any time.
> 
> That was indeed a useful session, thanks to Shuah for organizing. I took
> advantage of the offer for a follow-up session with Dr. Chance.
> 
>> So the topic I'd like to raise is what should we as a
>> community actually be providing to help people through burn out and
>> other community health issues?  We could just continue on as we are now
>> which is pretty much nothing official but various community members
>> will be happy to help (although good luck finding them listed
>> anywhere).
> 
> Speaking for myself, it is not clear that a list makes the problem
> better. If the number of community members willing to help is larger
> than the number of folks willing to be explicitly listed, does that
> injure scaling?
> 
> That said, if you are having a hard time, do reach out to peers, do not
> wait for a list.
> 
>> We could make the self help support more official by providing a
>> mailing list and possibly a wiki of volunteers specifically for the
>> purpose.
> 
> Steven has talked about this, and I am supportive.
> 
> Additionally, one of the developments since that Plumbers session that I
> believe helps with burnout and conflict is more offlist collaboration.
> For example, subsystem specific conference calls, subsystem chat
> channels, and if you are lucky enough to live near a critical mass of
> developers, occasional gatherings for drinks and catching up, helps
> relieve pressure and build community.
> 
>> Or, we could even decide that this is a serious enough problem to ask
>> the LF if it would be amenable to providing us with some resources to
>> help, thinks like organizing regular sessions like the plumbers one
>> above and perhaps offering 1:1 video counseling and other resources.
> 
> I do think aspects of this topic are in scope for Shuah's Mentorship
> Series, for more opportunities to share what works and what does not
> work in navigating a Linux career.
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/lf-live-mentorship-series/

I agree - I can plan upon including navigating Linux career in 2026
content. LPC is a good place to recruit people to host them.

> 
> There are also training and development resources that many folks have
> access to through $employer.

This is a good option.

> 
> I do wonder what the uptake was on the sponsored sessions with Dr.
> Chance to inform if this is a resource Linux community needs access to
> on a regular basis. Is this problem is getting worse, better, or staying
> the same over time?
> 

Good to have this data for planning the series and determining the level
of help.

thanks,
-- Shuah