From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 633E638DEB for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 15:46:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11220C433C8; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 15:45:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1695224759; bh=ff0hkpS1Szt1KkDmya8pWl4ogYwhgNztAND7aD90sCY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=bqs/J6/m7zZD83W1DwiUlVmUVdeEUiJnBvBTjZnGvLhe14gnXD/EGvmkj3NCNBP+h 4IgmYkFAjuTw0kbtQaRaydPxrrB6b9k9O6TU+bAHtr+ozf26EhY0apXD+T/CpFKjuS j/0tpPt8ZEONmPZJ2uT0yfQNn/pwGNwRViz+QxMsGd+fi/t3oigV0YGrw7NhAVkmE5 WHOBtUZLD+cq1Io+dMi0vox7IJpHn+gPzGrjI3CBOyRqV5Itp84Bw9NbkwZEoZE2Xc /5HkUEBks7h2sB13/jlMh+qZvAWPHliWPdXfNESyDitXj41P1hLblZ21ooM/ZPv+3L 6/N2ao7xunTHw== Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 16:45:56 +0100 From: Mark Brown To: Steven Rostedt Cc: ksummit@lists.linux.dev, tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group Message-ID: References: <20230919121001.7bc610d4@gandalf.local.home> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+Jmdq4yfHdJaoea2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20230919121001.7bc610d4@gandalf.local.home> X-Cookie: Even a hawk is an eagle among crows. --+Jmdq4yfHdJaoea2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 12:10:01PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > The problem is that there's been no replacement for the maintainer to > release their frustration. ... > I brought up to the TAB a suggestion of starting basically a "Maintainer's > support group". A place a maintainer, or even a submitter can go to when > they are feeling frustrated. This is not a replacement for the Code of > Conduct committee. This is more of a preventive measure. Ideally, the Code > of Conduct committee members should be very bored where there are no > submitted reports. That would mean our community is running in a very > smooth way. But that's currently not the case. There's been a few cases > that have come up where if the maintainer had someone to vent to, it could > have prevented the violation of the Code of Conduct. ... > When a maintainer is getting frustrated with a submitter or another > maintainer, or even a submitter is getting frustrated with a maintainer, > they would have a place to find a list of people that can help. They would > pick one of the people and send an email to them with a subject of > "[MAINTAINER SUPPORT]" (or something like that). This would let the > supporting maintainer know that this email is about support and should be > confidential and follow the guidelines. The email will include who and why > they are frustrated with the other person. Again, this is *not* a Code of > Conduct issue. This is not to point blame, just frustration. Sometimes > people just can not work with other people. The supporting maintainer can > be an outside POV and can possibly help with explaining why the other > person is acting the way they are. Or the supporting maintainer can find > another maintainer to work with this person. I think this is a really good idea, and I do think the bit about submitters also getting frustrated with maintainers is important here - there's a lot of "the process isn't working well" about this stuff which will apply just as much to submitters. It's going to be more obvious to us as maintainers that there's issues for maintainers, and in general submitters have more valves for releasing frustration (eg, for a lot of them it's easy to just walk away, though that's not true for everyone). --+Jmdq4yfHdJaoea2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCgAdFiEEreZoqmdXGLWf4p/qJNaLcl1Uh9AFAmULE7MACgkQJNaLcl1U h9Dl6wf9E8WwaeqOkbppGzFBtJiLohtAHD3vKM6b0qsLgH5rx0okexsHQj7NkWhF HA4DE1IJHA3yb0LhkajzI1uRemsM5NVB9W617Uu3AU3msYrduhHKgNLdEjIyCOHT wdaKlo2FtrQVFFp54IvWpJlA/1j52k/nD+D3EbSuWy7Fs/ZRRG5jpgjTX4ci3ZFw wNx1tLgLRJXCWezCogD2pz150kmj8WX9hY5szGc7xW46jZheKJ1x5QCHrb35+HEw hgxkesPHh0OxmW7kwpgpQhu8dSgB+nQVW+lFij9wkYdXkl/ONJfTxBv3yE/I/DmN EVpbKq+eYEWuJsRtE3etqwpLuOOGfg== =X3Ua -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+Jmdq4yfHdJaoea2--