From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mout-xforward.gmx.net (mout-xforward.gmx.net [82.165.159.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B81A48F58; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 07:41:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1664782871; bh=gucUevQeUc5hHlWYZ1t++7IBfAQIeAFhv0oKVclAfIg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=LDtYKhZEVvsON9ElCUXdGHh4BQ3BmQOa9MqgbOwJf1VL4XpPwBcKn9xX9xusrQ9p5 CmdqLYMcUpL/yhFfwRgZdGx43NdWEVZkeKvq0M1XKRHWqlTAAFblpXsHaW/zcpeLYt ikfmZ94Ig3DNG9B7WvgRIYuTCsBIgOJlvznLJD8o= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.25.110.16] ([143.244.37.214]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MZCbB-1ok1Jv3NsP-00V9JH; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 09:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 07:41:08 +0000 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" To: Al Viro Cc: Steven Rostedt , Theodore Ts'o , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg KH , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Mario Limonciello References: <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> <79bb605a-dab8-972d-aa4a-a5e5ee49387c@gmx.com> <20221002141321.394de676@rorschach.local.home> <6de0925c-a98a-219e-eed2-ba898ef974f8@gmx.com> <20221002180844.2e91b1f1@rorschach.local.home> <3a3b9346-e243-e178-f8dd-f8e1eacdc6ae@gmx.com> From: "Artem S. Tashkinov" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:DrgNFBxbBqk2s5Xnd5PRKt9UfYXricJ/EagAW0B9qrRTS4uYGrL Sy8BI4SytsvmGYtePFS3P0kMJWuczigBCyTfVCaTlYZ04ms1wp0oLvwbZqfM8jyKv7n2VRU 8PX2fIBmOulVnDNumjjryF8/NyLnR4DUk6cqUz3kjUqlE+rINg42rKrYqDoq/YMNUl2X4wy ztXBa3EbIk6W+SHrE/l8w== X-Spam-Flag: YES X-UI-Out-Filterresults: junk:10;V03:K0:GpOHzh+JbOQ=:e2fGUWLHIMAhSE8qqZeME9YO uam/Xr6wJAI//jIRGPtovEhyT7sxFi2gbAB6VGiCV3jpdTl5I4LMTigtJNMVCvSwEAh+pdEgK wZ5u6otuZ//Y3D8+tcfdR4mmw6RwWk1u+bpmAP9s+oLu3f08QtGM9NhHZFbfbRm9BhLniqoZd uDCtZ6Nm7zHMkadV6xDbfhIpYICGgbsC82I0YabhHUHqq+NOI8kSqNWE/HKu4loeVxTJm3/uk s7g3qkuF0yVCJZzagxP22RLm1uEIlzUrnG+6Mf2XT/X8YJKg7afnv/Ao2UmndFqNr9FMwaakR NdC5nFVuxZ1YXeIBMpBhlcnp9j2nRoEP34VJ4i07Uxwb+Egvm933RRuLY3iahO2lqCJ0ySaG4 dp2MXFUI5u0sr8/ja/saMI4Lh/wdTF6mHannVGtGIbFDYyNdCdXnSyC393A7k5oKLk+RFZASy Gk6FTKh7lraBaGXi5MD307imK+SljE3qGOxXD8ZgkHziM4HTFdIA33Zp6QKodCR/UnudXy+SS hMxNXbG99nL6YgVXhbyKq9iEFJ35aI32TfbMrMp/sbLnNBsJ7GM4o7TnqFCyz3z+9WdGBm7Cd gs+zhLafsJ2qdBp6mA5S6rbP5/8X5SOyc8kms1qGo1PgsW+dS8rAUBKcznOkqb9UfAdqv7YCH R0WkTVZfZELgQUonSq0vUeBd6Ho41JNUf+cyj3eeDug//cW9C3cMfcOluDPFRcR8Ge71HbNiO qVGvrcNXb0wRS9QsP6UrUoLV1Cj/AfeF2kbOrG9d6DTXwnt97Hm8RurXpvKfVPlOABzVmUpMG /dt08MzoYwAQQ7sslQ8z62+nPqE0QguE7Kfm4Ocii37a9kFSe7i7IW688x+olE+eD91DOebR9 DNeLBQRtHtZKnZg+rIOUgGWRv6bzBPrT9slxLzDVXIhxTB/i1LXm+jYbJEsWj+Zk5Q1dxkKjq BqIO2EY9csKkPJjX1o1RkViy5xMTJH7lVUMmSvN+VR5482qaa2xrMtCzk79AP0hxhQ+Jj6LKr uuPF8xntP+8WIuXJUyeEnBWc+y9+SDBfMKxnf5sgBjEA8IpmXj/GxRnuPfqFFHcWjwQbhd6m2 qOPC26gJz7LdYoMnrsnJCUXcTH8r49jmMwSaFnqz/ASxEGd9x33S86OumdlGLh7nWwJg2GZTw 5e0vR3fe63nPOQcQv7b2k2ink86lyN3IKnqY/azeh5t4IA== On 10/2/22 23:04, Al Viro wrote: > On Sun, Oct 02, 2022 at 10:20:40PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: > >> Bugzilla hasn't been updated in a very long time so it's missing both >> mailing lists and individual kernel developers. >> >> AFAIK, some pieces of kernel have no appropriate mailing lists at all. >> What about that? I've no clue. > > There's that file, right in the root of the source tree. Called "MAINTA= INERS", > in all-caps... Could have something to do with locating maintainers, co= uld it not? > >> Opt-in will work, except I've no idea how to make it work. Mass email >> all the kernel developers and politely invite them to sign up? Most wil= l >> simply ignore it. > > Sigh... You really don't seem to appreciate just how deep a septic > tank you've jumped into with your combination of "it should be opt-out" > and "but unsubscribing takes just a minute, what are you unhappy about?!= ?" > > Maybe you are not using email a lot, but for just about everyone who doe= s... > We have heard that. Many, many times. From many sources - spammers, > "legitimate" companies' marketing departments, etc. > > And you keep moving along the same track - the usual reaction of some > company after having pulled back a bloody stump and enjoyed the pile of > explanations of the reasons why opt-out is *NOT* *ACCEPTABLE*, *EVER* > is along the lines of "OK, we'll just spam everyone in our database once > and ask them to opt-in - that must be OK, right?" Being on bugzilla does _not_ mean you'll receive a single email unless someone _specifically_ CC's you. (Except for relevant mailing lists and already specified maintainers who are confirmed to manage certain kernel subsystems). We've had over40 messages in this conversation and not a single person has complained about SPAM ever coming from bugzilla. With what I proposed that would _not_ change. Weird to read this torrent of hatred and aggression towards purely imaginary SPAM. Anyways, Bugzilla is bad but it surely works. Let's have 100+ more interchanges inventing something most users (for whom Bugzilla exists - which people here keep forgetting all the time) will a have hard time working with. I repeat: Bugzilla exists for end users primarily. Regards, Artem