From: Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@linux.dev>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Ralf Jung <post@ralfj.de>, Alice Ryhl <aliceryhl@google.com>,
Ventura Jack <venturajack85@gmail.com>,
Gary Guo <gary@garyguo.net>,
airlied@gmail.com, boqun.feng@gmail.com,
david.laight.linux@gmail.com, ej@inai.de,
gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, hch@infradead.org, hpa@zytor.com,
ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:25:33 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <amebiomyty3gw7gwgpz3sbztzdac6ce2pslq3jjfe3no4w72dn@sskvzdp6l67w> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wh=8sqvB-_TkwRnvL7jVA_xKbzsy9VH-GR93brSxTp60w@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 09:59:41AM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> And just as an example: threading fundamentally introduces a notion of
> "aliasing" because different *threads* can access the same location
> concurrently. And that actually has real effects that a good language
> absolutely needs to deal with, even when there is absolutely *no*
> memory ordering or locking in the source code.
>
> For example, it means that you cannot ever widen stores unless you
> know that the data you are touching is thread-local. Because the bytes
> *next* to you may not be things that you control.
In Rust, W^X references mean you know that if you're writing to an
object you've got exclusive access - the exception being across an
UnsafeCell boundary, that's where you can't widen stores.
Which means all those old problems with bitfields go away, and the
compiler people finally know what they can safely do - and we have to
properly annotate access from multiple threads.
E.g. if you're doing a ringbuffer with head and tail pointers shared
between multiple threads, you no longer do that with bare integers, you
use atomics (even if you're not actually using any atomic operations on
them).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-02-26 20:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 196+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-02-22 10:06 Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 14:15 ` Gary Guo
2025-02-22 15:03 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 18:54 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 19:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 20:00 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 20:54 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-22 21:22 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 22:34 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:56 ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-22 22:12 ` David Laight
2025-02-22 22:46 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-23 0:06 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-23 15:30 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-23 16:28 ` David Laight
2025-02-24 0:27 ` Gary Guo
2025-02-24 9:57 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 10:31 ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:21 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 12:47 ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 16:57 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 22:03 ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 23:04 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:38 ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-25 22:47 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 23:03 ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:58 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-02-24 14:47 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 14:54 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 16:42 ` Philip Herron
2025-02-25 15:55 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:30 ` Arthur Cohen
2025-02-26 11:38 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-24 15:43 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 17:24 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 16:12 ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 17:21 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:36 ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 18:16 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 20:21 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:37 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-26 13:03 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:53 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:07 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:26 ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 14:37 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:39 ` Greg KH
2025-02-26 14:45 ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:00 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 16:42 ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:47 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 16:57 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 17:41 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 17:47 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:07 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2025-03-02 12:19 ` David Laight
2025-02-26 17:11 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 17:42 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 12:36 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:52 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 15:21 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:06 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:49 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 18:36 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:14 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 15:40 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:10 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 16:50 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 21:39 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 15:11 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:32 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-25 18:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 19:47 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 20:55 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 21:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 23:34 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:57 ` Gary Guo
2025-02-27 14:43 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:26 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:45 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 0:05 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 22:42 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:01 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 13:54 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 19:01 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 20:00 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 21:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:54 ` David Laight
2025-02-27 0:35 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 21:26 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:37 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:56 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:13 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:35 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 23:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 23:28 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27 0:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 20:47 ` David Laight
2025-02-27 21:33 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-28 21:29 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 21:41 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 22:20 ` David Laight
2025-02-27 22:40 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-28 7:44 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 15:41 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 15:46 ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:04 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:13 ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:21 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:40 ` Boqun Feng
2025-03-04 18:12 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 22:27 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 23:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 0:17 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 0:26 ` comex
2025-02-27 18:33 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 19:55 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 20:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-28 7:53 ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 19:16 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 4:18 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27 5:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 6:56 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27 14:29 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27 17:35 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:13 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 19:10 ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:00 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 18:44 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 14:21 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:27 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-28 8:08 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 8:32 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 20:25 ` Kent Overstreet [this message]
2025-02-26 20:34 ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-02-26 22:45 ` David Laight
2025-02-22 19:41 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-22 20:49 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:34 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:57 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:32 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 18:09 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 22:28 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 23:08 ` David Laight
2025-02-27 13:55 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 17:33 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:06 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 19:45 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 20:22 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 22:18 ` David Laight
2025-02-27 23:18 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 7:38 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 20:48 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 20:41 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 22:13 ` Geoffrey Thomas
2025-03-01 14:19 ` Ventura Jack
2025-03-04 18:24 ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 18:49 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-27 19:25 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 19:07 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 19:23 ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 20:22 ` Martin Uecker
[not found] <CAFJgqgRZ1w0ONj2wbcczx2=boXYHoLOd=-ke7tHGBAcifSfPUw@mail.gmail.com>
2025-02-25 15:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 16:45 ` Ventura Jack
[not found] <CANiq72m-R0tOakf=j7BZ78jDHdy=9-fvZbAT8j91Je2Bxy0sFg@mail.gmail.com>
2025-02-18 16:08 ` Rust kernel policy Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-18 18:46 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 21:49 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-18 22:54 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19 0:58 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-19 3:04 ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19 5:39 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 12:28 ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 12:37 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 13:23 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 15:17 ` C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 16:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-20 20:34 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-21 8:31 ` HUANG Zhaobin
2025-02-21 18:34 ` David Laight
2025-02-21 19:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 20:07 ` comex
2025-02-21 21:45 ` David Laight
2025-02-22 6:32 ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22 6:37 ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22 8:41 ` David Laight
2025-02-22 9:11 ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-21 20:06 ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-21 20:23 ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 20:24 ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 22:02 ` David Laight
2025-02-21 22:13 ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-22 5:56 ` comex
2025-02-21 20:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 22:19 ` henrychurchill
2025-02-21 22:52 ` henrychurchill
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