From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F06261D7E31 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2025 20:36:22 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1754512583; cv=none; b=rcCdEpjZiRnfi2Q7pgoH24yyawQhZj2nI40osB11fucdY8xATAuIghH+oVYEFYwYdnoNw1z/qac2zSLhKFmVskph/twFOjf0nZQ3AlHUuyevZUB/siDjtnM2elTzhJPw/Or06dktsYkjpXV19wWlM1TcnEgCwIICUScH0Qxee5E= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1754512583; c=relaxed/simple; bh=zlUzA5jUAHMovMibUcSH7j/0eZPNakGAwT4+I1mMwhg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=CNZqqpwZYXWcf16T9/lxMotXfi7hP2xjfPYYE6eNDaCyPdZrAUcH+6ZfS92TPlBHluTm+hUdNhsO4gK0r9asyuGqpOPZzocFsbhsHU4qQRYQzV+3nrCA6WMlYTRbPEjtdcNbLzvo2isNFwFpvSkEaaDetghcXieniMeoOnwz4c4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=t25QNfnz; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="t25QNfnz" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 78868C4CEE7; Wed, 6 Aug 2025 20:36:22 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1754512582; bh=zlUzA5jUAHMovMibUcSH7j/0eZPNakGAwT4+I1mMwhg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=t25QNfnzrn9U1V9oUhwQOoPcLDlK6bnKKnMzeVvRsUKDLC/vWiYFqgKElbzAHETHz mQPtmtfQfGYVJReTM5whb87ivoR5xr2pMgzacFewvdrgriaUMY2tjPssaSFY2j0H5D wHohJgN296mhtRFsva6pOvAkB5u6FlAiian4h4VpfPgHjegywKltdGMrdtBBMSoioE vBlS06eFwLAi/VT8c5T6FBbpMRGeF+vmMg/+PwokCtTKq3w725DdQwxkuZU2MEXNGK 8ur3eZi3tWXJCRJHai6+WJ029zf1WXNHYh9Zt98Yaz9hbzbQoMfOGjRqXUXUPg/Rfa nH61sNLARDhPw== Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 16:36:20 -0400 From: Sasha Levin To: Alexey Dobriyan Cc: Lorenzo Stoakes , James Bottomley , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] The role of AI and LLMs in the kernel process Message-ID: References: <56e85d392471beea3322d19bde368920ba6323b6.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Wed, Aug 06, 2025 at 07:04:02AM +0300, Alexey Dobriyan wrote: >On Tue, Aug 05, 2025 at 02:39:20PM -0400, Sasha Levin wrote: >> I don't think we should expect a bar for AI that is higher than the one >> we set for humans. > >We absolutely should. > >There is a thing with computers is that they are perfect. They are so >infinitely perfect compared to humans that anything downgrading computers >levels of perfection to humans level of perfection must be rejected >because it can't be scaled back and thus will be permanent loss. > >Would you install calculator application which you know reports wrong >results 1% of the time? Let's look at the last release and see :) $ git log --oneline --no-merges -i --grep ^fixes: --grep cc:.*stable v6.15..v6.16 | wc -l 2734 $ git log --oneline --no-merges v6.15..v6.16 | wc -l 14639 So at least ~20% of the commits that go in are fixes for issues - one can make the argument that 20% of the kernel is "broken" :) In your calculator example, if the calculator is making an error 1% of the time doing simple addition, I would not buy it. If it's making an error 1% of the time in an edgecase of something I probably would never use? Sure, I'd happily take the calculator. >Would you uninstall calculator after realizing it has 1% bug rate? I'm assuming we both agree that the kernel has over 1% "bug rate" throughout all of the various usecases it's being used in, why haven't you uninstalled it yet? -- Thanks, Sasha