From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ed1-f53.google.com (mail-ed1-f53.google.com [209.85.208.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E407165EFD for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 07:14:25 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.53 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1722928466; cv=none; b=uIZUNHwsO12nu5Lw7VhSAeVyYbjpjgwz8By4sk7F1ul+W+ReuqvyCm4bxVIgoKz3L1pY8zoaWFf5Qs4eQRHptAkeTPyH5ikwcKSUmhWevemcvjqTkqM9ANhLlgeD1pIeT4oOMahruGY67cFilKPAetmKZAFq5Nxe7pMp4ykDv04= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1722928466; c=relaxed/simple; bh=3E98Eu1FQ6+6jyk4/YZ+6HHm8hP2V0WB/HfY10KRV2s=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=kJsurMk/Uu5yjkdgkOMrj8iC+YnfEt9yQHpkSk0UKYofIiU2jG22MvRRcLw7OvukTGxOZCJ4v+PtoHXDOOFQOteyQmMfmsqqbSGy0qQXjNQ/PdDEmvLLLuadlXXjVN8TrmV7ATemoa1hQG7aEtOzZigye3XZyDJIYMa7m8Vm2zM= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ffwll.ch; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ffwll.ch; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ffwll.ch header.i=@ffwll.ch header.b=eunAccSf; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.53 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ffwll.ch Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ffwll.ch Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ffwll.ch header.i=@ffwll.ch header.b="eunAccSf" Received: by mail-ed1-f53.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5b9def4cbf6so122723a12.0 for ; Tue, 06 Aug 2024 00:14:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ffwll.ch; s=google; t=1722928463; x=1723533263; darn=lists.linux.dev; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YoILIVGqnvyXue9wibe7yNdf+HXnnRRR2apk4zDrIOU=; b=eunAccSfvUSRJE4i3Ri3KByr6/wKdxymqRoBBfs/zsh3B7Q62jpPo0iTUSabWTfEe8 Y06ZXDyR1N30TnY6YhzVAxXdTjnv8khZuDrKBqwQcaJRIqc2yMgH8YuFjcsBKG8MyKNS EoonkHKkoiY8I7jhJYV+mrzl86Vy0XmWtgDRM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1722928463; x=1723533263; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=YoILIVGqnvyXue9wibe7yNdf+HXnnRRR2apk4zDrIOU=; b=saVZzDK0rkOHUk3u9ubvEoAT6ADLWqFhFZq+z3pfBkFcpHjXgd0QSJrByvIkpbcyCO jHAMUE3Mni5Lz6fYiHrbazecoUZjqexu0+vpVa93sBBC1fSAG9vY9jwSQ87R3AVsOqWO ASDSy6ZqCpaKz3UFAdJYQgoPaBdrGcgdf4kulTcKtMeuQNRsYe7tjfTUjnPjwo526Xge m91vecxucUAaov0TT2WZy8jLUZ1t5OYYYX0aNCiNR1D+2m0RmPrJKkq5+z+BBXJQ0ND3 kelwAdzz5m84fQqXIDHUnlCPNlnui6l4WFHsWuptdlq0pI9oUvmnSL4mXUaD39CbjYKb 3y/Q== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUXRPF2AqL2N+NWBfWQgAoGXxX5IX1NtAvPDmMvzP/HRnGo0GG4AZmxOdcmDfPYjkCji/zfaco1@lists.linux.dev X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwptM4QQnSpmsreGprYA7QYTTDR2TtNLtPDcQZhvtsarAv29LqS +ITNhId3ejJS1eug9OxcuBaHZGoEXW7oBfknRL5CjbaApfrJVlHC8QboYA/ECv3PVdnrih/TjNJ d X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFt0UubU9tRXKmN+PsjgMssVL3mvxSBP75ERwo+mokToAjh3r5kkW9RxlPq16mZ3FsLBnNkIQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:bc0b:b0:a7a:9a78:4b5e with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a7dc50ff341mr496151166b.8.1722928463251; Tue, 06 Aug 2024 00:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phenom.ffwll.local ([2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-a7dc9e80e5fsm519934866b.161.2024.08.06.00.14.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Aug 2024 00:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 09:14:20 +0200 From: Daniel Vetter To: Jason Gunthorpe Cc: Daniel Vetter , Dan Williams , Jonathan Cameron , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-cxl@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, shiju.jose@huawei.com, Borislav Petkov , Mauro Carvalho Chehab Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Device Passthrough Considered Harmful? Message-ID: References: <668c67a324609_ed99294c0@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch> <20240729134512.0000487f@Huawei.com> <20240729154203.GF3371438@nvidia.com> <66a81996d4154_2142c29464@dwillia2-mobl3.amr.corp.intel.com.notmuch> <20240801142223.GM3371438@nvidia.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20240801142223.GM3371438@nvidia.com> X-Operating-System: Linux phenom 6.9.10-amd64 On Thu, Aug 01, 2024 at 11:22:23AM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 09:13:00AM +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote: > > I think a solid consensus on the topics above would be really useful for > > gpu/accel too. We're still busy with more pressing community/ecosystem > > building needs, but gpu fw has become rather complex and it's not > > stopping. And there's random other devices attached too nowadays, so fwctl > > makes a ton of sense. > > Yeah, I'm pretty sure GPU is going to need fwctl too, the GPU's are > going to have the same issues as NIC does. I see people are already > struggling with topics like how to get debug traces out of the GPU FW. > > > But for me the more important stuff would be some clear guidelines like > > what should be in other more across-devices subsystems like edac (or other > > ras features), what should be in functional subsystems like netdev, rdma, > > gpu/accel, ... whatever else, and what should be exposed through some > > special purpose subsystems like hwmon. > > In my mind the most important part is that fwctl is not exclusive, the > FW interface and things being manipulated must be sharable or blocked > from fwctl. We should never get in a situation where a fwctl > implementation becomes a reason we cannot have a functional subsystem > interface. Hm still not clear to me how you want to achive that, but I guess best I'll jump over to the fwctl thread and ask about those details there. > > We've got plenty of experience in enforcing such a community contract with > > vendors, but the hard part is creating a clear and ideally concise > > documentation page I can just point vendors at as the ground truth. > > Well, I tried with the documentation in the fwctl patch series.. > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-rdma/6-v2-940e479ceba9+3821-fwctl_jgg@nvidia.com/ I'll head over and drop some acks and comments. -Sima -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation http://blog.ffwll.ch