From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ed1-f49.google.com (mail-ed1-f49.google.com [209.85.208.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9AA735979 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2025 07:05:09 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.49 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740121511; cv=none; b=Au806UnrEewOiXkY9cIyVDxWCjPD6wz4uTeL8vcrGab5dPffLlXFYzTGbgKnRC3aniWD2UFRRdIe+dNG5KTQadHMUwy64R07x7Ev9tDeRD/SOXVrDQApLAGH/apii+uHFilGIKxt3TGeWWjJWKpKwgPInMzdXdwV1dqSITu+55g= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740121511; c=relaxed/simple; bh=sl7zCBDomJhdG0gnHNMB5kkyU6PcHulXkuYhL3ng/6w=; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=Fhr7CMiQYHKV5Bbdhr/27NzRWtidrTsax3l8C0Bk5yqrHASUIHW2EG6EOE5o4iWQiVTVTslWuOq0IcugJLD5wCMQkXy38ZR6RvBZyKbFNIDFDs+OKFyL0BikCrf/SCORJU9GUb+TL7vZDJXhjlfbY0qEyfceLnryNWQZNHCb5a8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=JcOhSWgP; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.49 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="JcOhSWgP" Received: by mail-ed1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5deb1266031so3274367a12.2 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:05:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740121508; x=1740726308; darn=lists.linux.dev; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sl7zCBDomJhdG0gnHNMB5kkyU6PcHulXkuYhL3ng/6w=; b=JcOhSWgPAi05ulx9br3wIY00w8FY2RTHMuc/p+Q0otkco4XLEt3vx+HlNw/x6t4Lxf lVVA/ux5RG7oKZZ27s1Myh9xnkmYxf84bSv7UlvqJlI4x+yFbERnv/gH7yTiKHK2h3ux Og3tnS/kw6SfUmgOrr7dX7xODR7ldn1yJtlkhfl1F9d/yQhQ70krohREkWGc4TORBThS z0ivfY9JOrdh9ISOgLOSsXxJPjgHu7zDeBAtk0kxed5UEtI8sQmjPEXphOI+hbuUN8mS 9oDbfzyu5+V6NkloxZvaFPMgB/PZTifYSti5KGwE4KtsWZvGjL3DUada0FsOSQrgiJw4 KITg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740121508; x=1740726308; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=sl7zCBDomJhdG0gnHNMB5kkyU6PcHulXkuYhL3ng/6w=; b=T8dcdLIJ6IExVFIu+1Ye7T/Gcy8hqjTsrNKdJJGWugvSKqxQ+yCYKsboprnG4zc5Xp nkUrsnhDqVuWUBQwATenHV8en5xS9UNM4iL9xPr/WMfMAN4wjARZxwoC64J73pD1Me1A mFNEN0nMsKZaJny0u6Vn/+INxtDUyGpwjLJBKiIoaMp6RGKFqiOdEXRAHfP8zw31EaxJ 4sn73dafMnH2kLEq0i26iBqt29AlEWxSedoqu2qZpCD3uQYjgf0ogMR96q/Oyp8rz2VF HtB6ZZOANikwspGayb8Ldm7aoBdSSgw5t9AiPSGn/1hoUj99WQlDcs6cUkA+6i3in5yR RuvA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWwvjP3Vh2yrQAsWjSI5xFZxhaa2lDgQCoq0SYq1h3KVp0Hiv9G1j+O3rvX4W1Tg9RqbQQcXiEc@lists.linux.dev X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxPwGeP/bszgqUdf7LZWYvEB57uhRotC4uGF1jmTxyWuv6Pk16F /89asfccvPwyMACIfZFwyXnoAgdiN6s1mEKBEmYvw6AiUa8NfCBOAfuH+nfqedjtmBXJKoeuyKP B1R0m/zAPqwSI/S4ihcNHpaswuwg= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvYOVk983z/e+CiAh+TEWsrQdldJfc1Fiyps0RR2RkBAzfHc4Y6kbcxzR95e8E heKB35AVicT2tQQR+wZyxuO3FOln5Kho+Tq56+UdYq3XZ/fCukUAmohzCVz+0Dfg+hWFzRIbU7R ZSbC96tw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHOQbo+TvMcu4+X/+LIeByPRKMQIlrYI0AV8qGp1AuzuqpbQz1twMeHfEV8p9x5EVqT5UvJoJGtCx8O1rMKfvg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:1c28:b0:ab7:462f:647f with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-abc0da36418mr148564466b.25.1740121507765; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2025021954-flaccid-pucker-f7d9@gregkh> <20250221051909.37478-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Airlie Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 17:04:55 +1000 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZkbvphXlwFSnn15e6k57DAgnH-HQV5ZI0ER8aN1n4x5jMTuqqoaJo3XkBs Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy To: Felipe Contreras Cc: Boqun Feng , gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, hch@infradead.org, hpa@zytor.com, ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 at 15:59, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > Boqun Feng wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 11:19:09PM -0600, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > > Greg KH wrote: > > > > But for new code / drivers, writing them in rust where these types of > > > > bugs just can't happen (or happen much much less) is a win for all of > > > > us, why wouldn't we do this? > > > > > > *If* they can be written in Rust in the first place. You are skipping that > > > very important precondition. > > > > Hmm.. there are multiple old/new drivers (not a complete list) already > > in Rust: > > That is a black swan fallacy. Just because you've seen 4 white swans > that doesn't mean all swans are white. > > > , so is there still a question that drivers can be written in Rust? > > I didn't say no driver can be written Rust, I questioned whether *all* > drivers can be written in Rust. > > People are operating under that assumption, but it isn't necessarily true. That doesn't make sense, like you could make a statement that not all drivers could be written in C, but it would be trash, so why do you think rust is different? if you said 100% safe rust I'd agree, but that isn't the goal. Dave.