From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com (mail-ej1-f43.google.com [209.85.218.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2294D7F for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 04:07:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-9a18a4136a9so276408366b.2 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:07:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1692677263; x=1693282063; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MFePXanh8vCsS1M3eVMD7srRtGzLE0Xp6c536InAD48=; b=mOEM0/duMFqLSRZgeLCvPMblqM75y/fgAitpXeXgsIgW1Xpx3vhRT6wiMMxAo47bpu xJI+ZtzeSmjKPew3ky+oO+pBqxCEmslKjL7/k6cm+EbB663hRIevemK9BGZf5SQNn2/g umnoYmTWrjVOjjpI0Ng3RGzr+SUjaajQCepG3UO4eAa6LXDmyF6RSzr4eCFjzdhPcDUg DvUsrBUGFVtdl6DelOqaKij9sQLJWQegmWKH3mvP+/9V3jsBf3TWjZvf+L54mKS7YCx3 cjDN7Cd34LjDeBbdBh04LIGa3VbUfPL8FjXq74upKeq9aZuwFrktNoEO14yqBXsxQZ7G KEjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1692677263; x=1693282063; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=MFePXanh8vCsS1M3eVMD7srRtGzLE0Xp6c536InAD48=; b=dkdEm4zXtGs5pHe53HkYHuCDFtF8uJA6m5ZWztyHdqLVjEgCjmh7zt9x2hXG7zzeqM dDCXEXpjNSIDfaGvBp9lith9z7MdfQy0yNriIEiJ/A3sHdygDR2cqaNt8HrEXvcGS4Th I2npYSMWTwBkfdRTp349115P1LJ8sIJBe7BEwYxvIpj6VsX1lNi49ap4L25OldhwXMQo 7OZikA+Mcw1Ryax0W1xu1aq5k7Tk8fQTCub3bZBJ97rbYyH0sUty31hpWKZuPy3q1Fee HIHmbjskauQ6c4bqlFq9l1YmdGZuNeIo4Cz4VNZVQVk2jgRy7n6N72KgtqQqF7LopjLp kWyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwTseQnAZSfE0cdUHtZbneceJp5UMvIqqN69DJI0uzT3GuYFteV na/+CmNdGKmD8Oc9ZMzNZSUSu5QrrqARZechsNpeygD0giw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHYW2+G7pO16S2uiRp4TKhExYRgOWeSY29a3zf8TY5n1VthfMV6N5CoHnaRjUrU/D3NKVB4296RQH7BorKxBwI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7388:b0:9a1:9284:11b with SMTP id f8-20020a170906738800b009a19284011bmr5354737ejl.7.1692677262995; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230816180808.GB2919664@perftesting> <20230817093914.GE21668@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <44814ed5-7bab-4e56-9ca6-189870f97f41@lunn.ch> <20230817081957.1287b966@kernel.org> <20230818080949.7b17b0d5@kernel.org> <20230819064537.GM22185@unreal> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Airlie Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2023 14:07:31 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainer burnout To: Vegard Nossum Cc: Leon Romanovsky , Linus Torvalds , Jakub Kicinski , Linus Walleij , Alexei Starovoitov , Andrew Lunn , Laurent Pinchart , Luis Chamberlain , Josef Bacik , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Jeff Layton , Song Liu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 at 05:24, Vegard Nossum wrote: > > > On 8/19/23 08:45, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > It is worth to try to get honest feedback from active developers/contributors/vendors > > what is their "real" excuse for not doing code review. > > > > I saw in this thread about "have no time to do code review" answers and we > > all can relate to it, but IMHO it is just an excuse and not the real reason. > > Especially for a people who are employed by big corporations to do their > > upstream work. > > Hi, > > For some drive-by or would-be reviewers, at least, I think part of the > problem is perverse or misaligned incentives. > > If you write code and your patches are accepted in the kernel, it counts > towards your commit count, which is a metric that people look at, for > better or worse (probably worse). You have to create some sort of market I suppose, where people have to work in a community to get their own patches reviewed by other people who aren't incentivised by their management to review patches. I don't think there's a nice way to do it, anyone wanting patches merged needs to review patches from others, and vice-versa, it's good if you have multiple submissions of the same sort of driver features at the same time which happens often, then they cross work. The whole "hardware I don't have" thing is a misnomer, nobody expects you or reviewers to know how to program the hardware, but they do expect you to understand how to interface a driver to the kernel, know what good code patterns to use and when a new submission does something completely unexpected then senior maintainers need to get involved to push back. Dave.