Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [TECH-TOPIC] Review - Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it.

[Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch> wrote:
>
> Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de> schrieb am Di., 25. Sep. 2018, 00:22:
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2018, Olof Johansson wrote:
>> > Ah yes, Popper's Paradox. The answer is not that we have to be
>> > tolerant of the intolerant -- or at least not infinitely. We also all
>> > know that people need a bit of time to adjust to new habits and I
>> > think we should focus more on (quick) improvement over time than
>> > absolutes. We're all humans.
>>
>> That's the important point here: we are _all_ humans. That includes those
>> who occasionally lose their temper (I know what I'm talking about and I
>> know for sure that it is a life long struggle to control it).
>>
>> If someone puts that person in his place, that's absolutely correct and
>> necessary. Most people immediately react, regret and apologize and they
>> mean it.

Minor note: "put in place" can be interpreted as someone standing up
and yelling even louder back at the person who's already aggravated.
That's not how things should have to work.

>>
>> Now if someone gets put in his place and the person who does that then goes
>> one step further and asks (privately) what's wrong and what caused that
>> pointless explosion, in other words deeply cares about the other person who
>> failed, then a way deeper change happens than just using the Code of
>> Conflict/Conduct as a one edged sword.
>
>
>
> All this coc asks you to do is stop putting yourself first and start considering others. Instead of lashing out and then expecting your recipients to also handle the fallout for, plus showing deep empathy for the harassment they just received.
>>
>>
>> Then 'be excellent to each other' becomes what it's really meant to be.
>
> Seems rather one way instead of mutual, what you have in mind.

I don't think anyone is in disagreement about the base case: That
everybody will work on changing, and that it's considered OK and
expected to call out when someone is starting to get out of line. Also
that we're all expecting things to converge on "excellent to each
other" very quickly even if there ends up being a couple of stumbles
along the way. Nobody gets free passes.

The second part I think there are two ways to interpret, and I read it
differently than you (but I might be the one who missed Thomas'
intention):

Reaching out to the one who's misbehaving I see more as something
friends will do to each other, not what the community as such is
expected to do. I.e. if I enjoy having Thomas around (I do, but I'm
also looking forward to him not blowing up ever so often), it's worth
checking in to see if everything is OK and if there's anything I can
do to help. Not before someone has checked in with the person at the
receiving end, and I definitely would never expect that person to be
the one checking in with Thomas.


-Olof