From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com (mail-pj1-f41.google.com [209.85.216.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECE07265633 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:41:10 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.216.41 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740094872; cv=none; b=OXrOJXZf3xKO0Yd/XhW6xGhu0LPdnLVPMHroBCb3iH0HlS5FQwc/FzbZZ+gorU6BoI1yKJDkJYACxq9tXR7SL2C+itB9CAYyeeP2hLM0CqWMM2RgsLqZfcucuBkk1HRNMFsWOIr9C5KGg6DdTwXX56v/1ota4hUj1U2FSWjrCt8= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740094872; c=relaxed/simple; bh=irbzh/oe51A79xVYF3jxZzKe+dVGiUXNJMFjUvq6beY=; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=ZF8QlyZfkzMOwdR5p26lotGLBxkFG9fl/BlYfaWUhfLhosbhEioASwcQ6cpLxpnPCAFDsYOUCujKeamjT6F/fMoZpGlRxPCRtFIMwZgWEjHofuY6eT7gAiAjz9E0CcIt00raAufFrcgnxaNY8FX1ihW4At22pzspu3lR6dwMUpo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=OVDJrgUB; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.216.41 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="OVDJrgUB" Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2fc95e20e72so365827a91.1 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 15:41:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740094870; x=1740699670; darn=lists.linux.dev; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=irbzh/oe51A79xVYF3jxZzKe+dVGiUXNJMFjUvq6beY=; b=OVDJrgUBKWVI1VRqT/2OAEPDwYgWZpkHiRb4Hiw7kYB7Gaj0yS29haNoUkt+pFfbtD tCugjCilT4k9XHy6hPL5sjwvjk3PNq09v/hYphPWLoy2FoB7gRRPjJHSuZ0NUKojORel mQx+CXoZsUuMVzBBrNLOH4SPHiqONEfK8rx6rqWzV3D27QEuyE8A4HzjC+ZmZA0HUp1n nRQFnJLkzBu6sKNXvhpNrmAywY8Bdhk2rdAiyG8c30uMR3mNuHZuU+pDLeaWGOulOupN rl6Jmy895TLYrzGrtm/hl3Ubmoltky9Kov0+VHgTVvjVvGsc+ZbQYrh6Wk4gWXttwbcd wK9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740094870; x=1740699670; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=irbzh/oe51A79xVYF3jxZzKe+dVGiUXNJMFjUvq6beY=; b=j6/Ekyu7lk3m17HFjBLlflhsHiP5NxnRV6Cu+5WxQlcS0H3ll3JJsr+zkl1o7HtWDW F8huOZYQnxckC8l4Gvh9I5xyIXOKaj9US1bHmAr2yyHZkB57sUOTkXGMGyHFuSOUjB5R ZJ+MmIte4q9H0tdlXdzTfV06xrwqus2aRtozcEYQxDS01rxaJnDUGGd2AWlnjbMAW2F2 7+9GHvm24lye6MitLzsCT6ZiwkixNOhi0SA+N+L5dTHY7Yq73jcobwss3V5+p2Qg8038 uCIIl9XyR4clxWIGiR3QJfY1XG8Pr099Ydt5D28wCzu9khY36LFg5fq+LGwOvUBMFokw QlPQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVh1+AGdx+qlUeyzQ6pDJGGVXVzWv+fphuqHW+CrpfgNnAEo+C1K/eJLilWpu/D2rwj+iVKYLvi@lists.linux.dev X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw+hEG8waSHL309QLd6G7B9/kFtQOSU2CcDPpnWFgr61MSiuLL5 lNEEW0mf2AfTbv0kpMlOF84T2LuB2c12Hg8LO9IUbms+3m21TaS/ThcdedqGmNolbHNi5dubx14 /kpZCpNks10SG6YITM5IlqZR8MP0= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnIX6P0N/GqVwa7intW9Qo+YSY04TcOivNNnA5fyCy4QPHSJkyPOmWA3+Skvp jkHNHu77kMgZfZSj0E9r9/wvAku0eKRldbXxjfOkxFzCqqzEqGkflcaKTa6tMDli6j8RhpsQz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE3tTMC50ciOK+8N/4de26wZ6Pg8vooUK40uWXc0KvimGcWwvs1xaU2vMuCSIhfeBeWHEofydflMa9Ma5wDnkg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1e05:b0:2fa:17d2:158 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2fce75dfdb1mr694090a91.0.1740094870138; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 15:41:10 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250219170623.GB1789203@mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20250219170623.GB1789203@mit.edu> From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 00:40:57 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZmuZcjvGrCyDvmTbEKuMO6tYd_p5yChnLfIZmwrF8AsdfajLNX5ZuOK-5U Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy To: "Theodore Ts'o" Cc: James Bottomley , Christoph Hellwig , rust-for-linux , Linus Torvalds , Greg KH , David Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 6:06=E2=80=AFPM Theodore Ts'o wrote= : > > I do understand (now) what Wedson was trying to do, was to show off > how expressive and powerful Rust can be, even in the face of a fairly > complex interface. Thanks for saying that. > It turns out there were some good reasons for why > the VFS handles inode creation, but in general, I'd encourage us to > consider whether there are ways to change the abstractions on the C > side so that: Definitely -- improving the C side (not just for Rust callers, but also for C ones) would be great, whether that is with extra annotations/extensions or redesigns. In the beginning (pre-merge), we tried hard not to require changes on the C side, because we wanted to show that it is possible to use Rust (i.e. create safe abstractions for C APIs) even with minimal or no changes to C headers. We thought it was a useful property. But then we got C maintainers that welcomed improvements that would benefit both sides, which was nice to see, and opens up some doors -- as a simple example, Greg added made some APIs `const`-correct so that we got the right pointer type on the Rust bindings. So, yeah, anything in that direction (that either improves the C side and/or simplifies the Rust bindings/abstractions) would be great. Cheers, Miguel