From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com (mail-qt1-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28BE42917; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 12:32:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id gb14so7998916qtb.3; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 05:32:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=mAm6cVyQiiO6vug+rJbXVrDQAEKK9J1ugo8edz5Ki04=; b=32r3FvtxjzdeGVUUSEkOogwVByh8C4TvkXRsErVeNFauGeP8EG8lxD4hWEhjgWi9gA rag78moPboh9kToAvFyyfZvQJC9UThdSUY86cOode0glFgldCgzqLrixq1JBRUP8cuNz LQBXX0xPCWt085cDsU2enF/yLmoOTVkH/yByjG32eXn9iVyxXAKUVL1hlr3G4kfvkwmW E4oq/zioi31z/uzCsRgEnYv8dDLWkteXvK86Onj+gagnspEEnbJ4g9BC7Nc+YlbT7Z1m kNJnYPQ3thABDicc1PyMcBxy8b1DtQuLj9NNwo94R5mpN/si3oOdMAo870tNPB5OCtgb HRSw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1shrLtV3tF3lR+pb9QWD3VvwtPQXlH+KbnoKEVaA0FxAXqANNG 6C62I2wE7Yi++abzJld7XZl46y59Fry2wg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5fABNP2OFKLaOgVxvjxzX1HKqpAMQF3HgnLJLrFVcZbT94BcC5kE+HC4FH6TZLipGh3+6qIw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5c8f:0:b0:35c:c6b5:9179 with SMTP id r15-20020ac85c8f000000b0035cc6b59179mr19585556qta.10.1664886758873; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw1-f176.google.com (mail-yw1-f176.google.com. [209.85.128.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bm8-20020a05620a198800b006cfc7f9eea0sm13847317qkb.122.2022.10.04.05.32.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Oct 2022 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f176.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-35711e5a5ceso94259117b3.13; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a0d:de43:0:b0:349:31bd:e8d5 with SMTP id h64-20020a0dde43000000b0034931bde8d5mr23626998ywe.283.1664886758049; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 05:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <79bb605a-dab8-972d-aa4a-a5e5ee49387c@gmx.com> <20221002141321.394de676@rorschach.local.home> <6de0925c-a98a-219e-eed2-ba898ef974f8@gmx.com> <20221002180844.2e91b1f1@rorschach.local.home> <3a3b9346-e243-e178-f8dd-f8e1eacdc6ae@gmx.com> <251201be-9552-3a51-749c-3daf4d181250@gmx.com> <1d3fdc6a-a98a-fe3b-2e3e-acc2ffa24f9d@gmx.com> <20221003102029.1fe4f31b@gandalf.local.home> In-Reply-To: From: Geert Uytterhoeven Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:32:26 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" To: "Artem S. Tashkinov" Cc: Steven Rostedt , Mike Rapoport , Al Viro , "Theodore Ts'o" , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg KH , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Mario Limonciello Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Artem, On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:16 PM Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: > On 10/3/22 14:20, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Oct 2022 09:40:43 +0000 > > "Artem S. Tashkinov" wrote: > >> For instance, I've CC'ed Linus Torvalds _privately_ from Bugzilla twice > >> and he _chimed_ in and _helped_ resolve the bugs. > > > > You didn't Cc Linus _privately_, because you Cc'd him from Bugzilla. I'm > > guessing that means it's a public conversation. Which is similar to Cc'ing > > a maintainer and a public mailing list. > > I _did_ CC him privately by adding his _personal_ e-mail. I'm astonished > not only you don't believe me you turn my words inside out. I think there is a misunderstanding of the meaning of "CC privately". To me it means no public data disclosing entity (be it a public mailing list, or a public bug tracker) was CCed as well. To you, it seems to mean you used his personal email address instead of a mailing list address. > Wow, so pretty much the vast majority of people here advocate for > deprecating Bugzilla and asking non-IT people to use something which is > essentially a ... SPAM list? > > Woah. > > I've given almost a dozen reasons why mailing lists simply don't work as > a bug tracker in absolute most cases. And people disagree. No amount of "Woah" will change that, only facts and figures can do. > BTW, this discussion is a perfect f-ing example of that. What could have > been easily read in a tracker needs to be repeated over and over and > over again because you didn't bother to read previous messages 'cause > you were busy, not paying attention, simply forgot and you don't want to > scroll days of messages in your inbox. > > God, this is so ugly it's cringe worthy. > > Most people here who advocate for killing off Bugzilla: > > 1) Have _never_ used it > 2) Have troubles even following _this_ conversation > > That' ridiculous. Thanks for your insults. This is not the way to convince people. P.S. I did read all of it, I may stop doing so soon... Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds