From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7DE01F4D for ; Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ua0-f175.google.com (mail-ua0-f175.google.com [209.85.217.175]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F26F5682 for ; Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua0-f175.google.com with SMTP id a2-v6so7683196uak.2 for ; Mon, 14 May 2018 01:00:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: geert.uytterhoeven@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <20180502194632.GB18390@sasha-vm> <20180503020550.GP2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> <20180509084440.GW13402@sirena.org.uk> <20180510164722.GH8514@sasha-vm> From: Geert Uytterhoeven Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 10:00:30 +0200 Message-ID: To: Sasha Levin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Cc: "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Greg KH , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "w@1wt.eu" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:00 PM, Sasha Levin wrote: > On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 03:44:50PM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: >>On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 04:38:21PM +0000, Sasha Levin wrote: >>> - A merge window commit spent 50% more days, on average, in -next than a -rc >>> commit. >> >>So it *used* to be the case that after the merge window, I would queue >>up bug fixes for the next merge window. Greg K-H pushed for me to >>send them to Linus sooner, instead of waiting for the next merge >>window. TBH, it's actually easier for me to just wait until the next >>merge window, but please understand that there are multiple pressures >>on maintainers going on here, and the latest efforts to try to use >>AUTOSEL is just the most recent pressure placed on maintainers. >> >>The other thing is that when there is a regression users who are >>testing linux-next want it fixed *fast*. That's considered more >>important to them than waiting for one, perfect patch, just to keep >>AUTOSEL happy. >> >>So please understand that when you say that maintainers *need* to do X >>or Y, that there you are not the only one standing in line putting >>pressures on maintainers saying they *need* to do something. And >>quite frankly, I consider keeping people who are nice enough to test >>linux-next happy to be **far** more important than AUTOSEL. > > Ted, > > I'm not at all asking to wait before adding the patches to your tree, > or to -next. I'm asking to hold on to them a bit longer before you > push them to Linus because I can show that patches that don't spend > enough time in -next are more likely to introduce bugs. > > Yes, linux-next users want it fixed *now* and I completely agree it > should be done that way, but the fix should not be immediately pushed to > Linus as well. > > I've just finished reading an interesting article on LWN about the > PostgreSQL fsync issues (https://lwn.net/Articles/752952/). If you > look at Willy's commit, he wrote the final version of it about 5 days > ago, Jeff merged it in 3 days ago, and Linus merged it in the tree > today. Did it spend any time getting -next testing? nope. > > What's worse is that that commit is tagged for stable, which means > that (given Greg's schedule) it may find it's way to -stable users > even before some -next users/bots had a chance to test it out. I just noticed a case where a commit was picked up for stable, while a bot had flagged it as a build regression 18 hours earlier (with a CC to lkml). So it looks like the script for backporting commits should be enhanced to check for this (searching for the commit ID in my email archive found the bot report). Thanks! Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds