From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-ed1-f46.google.com (mail-ed1-f46.google.com [209.85.208.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 312442C235A for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:16:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.46 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760609777; cv=none; b=uOHvXyhWtY4xHVaxeMd6NURiZWOaqbSZrKOlR9FQxWcZpGw/Hc2ASqLZ5bBes3anTDoKYzo2aPljQqI7ffQ3pZk6QFIGhJQNdtShxfuQjmUGu7D/P5B05KIJm9MeOT+KudGs91/XlYVlwrwE8hf5uSr9BqweOD4+TOL7p6dJoLc= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760609777; c=relaxed/simple; bh=akP1iV0axyEuMtlOaIik732dTQeKhwv6mkgEfyuP6d4=; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=ZI6qKNK49zz4MfZ5o/NDgZqwK67LY7EGK5V6QZ3wVGBALpPoLcL4QH7hbBtYaQOzss+fvjtMedC+A4hjWBOUI0XWkYzwEbpg0zVS8shjaojy6JvzgxbU8um4Tuca3+UaD6ePSzjCRxIVVl9AV+h62jC1BTUO7AYMxllm+jrEwE0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ffwll.ch; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ffwll.ch; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ffwll.ch header.i=@ffwll.ch header.b=UuavZ7qQ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.208.46 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ffwll.ch Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ffwll.ch Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ffwll.ch header.i=@ffwll.ch header.b="UuavZ7qQ" Received: by mail-ed1-f46.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-639e1e8c8c8so1001172a12.1 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:16:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ffwll.ch; s=google; t=1760609774; x=1761214574; darn=lists.linux.dev; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AqKayTLj7msO7nr12CoYxPbhyLThckDUqbrKzOOjpnk=; b=UuavZ7qQj3u5+MSO1DHTr5ldYkywRsYxstVc0velktyvJuYLLotkT5W7PDguNzMedu 5KdjyiWUVrAtPeZ1lK+VmLWsuxBD2aTxphvwCNHJohqiCQW/LvMZf/4S59iravkzabNU lPqZOlZPX8lOOMBsfPyw28mAiKtxrv37sY1YM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760609774; x=1761214574; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=AqKayTLj7msO7nr12CoYxPbhyLThckDUqbrKzOOjpnk=; b=dj02IPdEZs5rEGuOsYEa3aFoEgvIA+C0rbBfbk46Evk3GI9LeU1MecdQ2bAYaL1ZOu 2ioIZBP/iPS8HAAiGxm3ks+82gdIE5IAr1LmxbgWAtPiQo7eRF3OnCSvMnLng5T5szlZ 2kvGyOZNiL+LlVa7ubquQ6b+pmZGhusT7AY/g2xq9r3Pt3UKHkNRX7k+sxPG4nqOjdIx yWzoBeZnSrD3whvqnZkNuyT2FgvLUC2tE+Vs657M7w8MOEnZBDCmycdohxD3dR9n+zM7 r8oa2eDWKY/qqIr6ZNb2pkbVE45aHAFbxIvax4bedAJQXGaoDqxjH7myaYdf0mvbmXi7 iIeQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVuF9j76D9a/LNrNcdE5BPSNo7frYMCSgbo4044J0olffwofpZ+v2zVvbv/cFSPUJD/3q632gA8@lists.linux.dev X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxroQ/dSyYW/XUNIylC63gjeQ2Wo34pbq0b5kRrCQXzXfzmOAKz ycEymhEk4tsoPrhz7gkz2x44VR4BEmedYuJaosn7+gMsnq2FCstDbWFsJw2Un9LRTw3YhzQgQw3 3TLnh2N2oLS8SmqN7b1h3Aiv5go0oFY2YOpQXfYOG9g== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvt1Qlus75/vSorpR7MtMFCapjKR7N8x2jSf5VysiuSmyPmcrcXW252RTt+Ga7 ZyrR/XE7ZOPXzw8nhlfsgEYM4QW11fb2e0X0sYt9MV4U560IERvuaJvOs3IIxApJ9TJiazVPeo+ uJkiAYSX2JfJ6MxkJz/HokVUroe5t22v+Jft+FTzK6UMsrdlUop8ECufHz3QhIOx0OIIDAuIk+f mDWzmTNLfqrqdVvD8nit5QaxcKqPXK2aUDjJXuEF76zRPIlwhy6ZM6rA2wWHPBM2GFHnUbXhGOa scNBo46M3bbJgFIQo8xn1ikP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFN6BNxWfqcco84bLB+E3zd06tD/hcY1v2GS07EfoukRS0Y1bVCVr4GG2dfF+SEwMDpfrt0JOI9sekeldXMQkc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2808:b0:62f:5b56:423d with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-639d5b8b64amr30817831a12.14.1760609774320; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6b188d9e-3d47-4a30-8452-3e57e09cf8e3@efficios.com> <8572506ccdaa6211e177d5976a74737268486492.camel@sipsolutions.net> <20251014153521.693907a1@gandalf.local.home> <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> In-Reply-To: <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> From: Simona Vetter Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:16:01 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWDgOgP1DqVYpiRdZFRcc_24lfupbJgHJMwFJvZ-pIyJoG-zE53ix79SRPo Message-ID: Subject: Re: Replacing Link trailers To: Steven Rostedt Cc: Johannes Berg , Mathieu Desnoyers , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 at 00:22, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 00:01:38 +0200 > Johannes Berg wrote: > > > So yeah, circling back to "benevolent" -- for me, this has definitely > > broken the "benevolent" part and a lot of trust. But that's fine, I can > > also do a job that heavily resolves around following a manager's > > arbitrary whims. But my heart won't be in it. > > Yes it does appear that we all have extra work to do because one person > doesn't like the current method. I don't think I saw anyone else complain > about the "useless" link either. Maybe I missed it. But currently it's all > been "Alright, fine, I'll work around this" and not one "Oh Great! This is > most definitely helpful!", like what happened when Linus created "git". > > I'm currently looking for someone to help me with my maintainership. Masami > came on board, but what happened was that he basically maintains all things > "probe" related and I do everything else. That split still takes up more > time than we have designated. > > Unfortunately, I've had many people say to me "I don't ever want to be a > top level maintainer" and "better you than me", which makes it very > difficult to find a helper. This discussion isn't helping with that > perspective either. +1 on both Steve's observation and Johannes' entire mail. -Sima -- Simona Vetter Software Engineer http://blog.ffwll.ch