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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	NeilBrown <neilb@suse.de>,
	 James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
	Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	 Eric Sandeen <sandeen@sandeen.net>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	 Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	ksummit@lists.linux.dev,  linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS/KERNEL SUMMIT] Trust and maintenance of file systems
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:48:23 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wizOtVCZCcUvC3F+GFxcTfj1D3qL2yzCfd7YRnntY0=pQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZQi4E_3b6MrJQSXs@mit.edu>

On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 13:51, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>
> Fortunately, I most of the "simple" file systems appear to support
> mmap, via generic_file_mmap:

Yes, but that is in fact exactly the path that causes the most
complexity for the buffer cache: it needs that "readpage" function
that in turn then uses mpage_readpage() and friends to create the
buffers all in the same page.

And then - in order for normal read/write to not have any buffer
aliases, and be coherent - they too need to deal with that "group of
buffers in the same page" situation too.

It's not a *big* amount of complexity, but it's absolutely the most
complicated part of the buffer cache by far, in how it makes buffer
heads not independent of each other, and how it makes some of the
buffer cache depend on the page lock etc.

So the mmap side is what ties buffers heads together with the pages
(now folios), and it's not pretty. we have a number of loops like

        struct buffer_head *bh = head;
        do {
                .. work on bh ..
                bh = bh->b_this_page;
        } while (bh != head);

together with rules for marking buffers and pages dirty / uptodate /
whatever hand-in-hand.

Anyway, all of this is very old, and all of it is quite stable. We had
mmap support thanks to these games even before the page cache existed.

So it's not _pretty_, but it works, and if we can't just say "we don't
need to support mmap", we're almost certainly stuck with it (at least
if we want mappings that stay coherent with IO).

               Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2023-09-18 22:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-08-30 14:07 Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-05 23:06 ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-05 23:23   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-06  2:09     ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-06 15:06       ` Christian Brauner
2023-09-06 15:59         ` Christian Brauner
2023-09-06 19:09         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2023-09-08  8:34         ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-07  0:46     ` Bagas Sanjaya
2023-09-09 12:50     ` James Bottomley
2023-09-09 15:44       ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-10 19:51         ` James Bottomley
2023-09-10 20:19           ` Kent Overstreet
2023-09-10 21:15           ` Guenter Roeck
2023-09-11  3:10           ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-11 19:03             ` James Bottomley
2023-09-12  0:23               ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-12 16:52             ` H. Peter Anvin
2023-09-09 22:42       ` Kent Overstreet
2023-09-10  8:19         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2023-09-10  8:37           ` Bernd Schubert
2023-09-10 16:35           ` Kent Overstreet
2023-09-10 17:26             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2023-09-10 17:35               ` Kent Overstreet
2023-09-11  1:05         ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-11  1:29           ` Kent Overstreet
2023-09-11  2:07             ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-11 13:35               ` David Disseldorp
2023-09-11 17:45                 ` Bart Van Assche
2023-09-11 19:11                   ` David Disseldorp
2023-09-11 23:05                 ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-26  5:24           ` Eric W. Biederman
2023-09-08  8:55   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-08 22:47     ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-06 22:32 ` Guenter Roeck
2023-09-06 22:54   ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-07  0:53     ` Bagas Sanjaya
2023-09-07  3:14       ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-07  1:53     ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-07  2:22       ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-07  2:51         ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-07  3:26           ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-07  8:04             ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2023-09-07 10:29               ` Christian Brauner
2023-09-07 11:18                 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2023-09-07 12:04                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-07 12:57                   ` Guenter Roeck
2023-09-07 13:56                     ` Christian Brauner
2023-09-08  8:44                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-07  3:38           ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-07 11:18             ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-13 16:43               ` Eric Sandeen
2023-09-13 16:58                 ` Guenter Roeck
2023-09-13 17:03                 ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-15 22:48                   ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-16 19:44                     ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-16 21:50                     ` James Bottomley
2023-09-17  1:40                       ` NeilBrown
2023-09-17 17:30                         ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-17 18:09                           ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-17 18:57                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-17 19:45                             ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-18 11:14                               ` Jan Kara
2023-09-18 17:26                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-18 19:32                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2023-09-18 19:59                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-18 20:50                                       ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-18 22:48                                         ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2023-09-18 20:33                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2023-09-19  4:56                                   ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-25  9:43                                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-27 22:23                                 ` Dave Kleikamp
2023-09-19  1:15                           ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-19  5:17                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-19 16:34                               ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-19 16:45                                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-09-19 17:15                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-19 22:57                               ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-18 14:54                       ` Bill O'Donnell
2023-09-19  2:44                       ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-19 16:57                         ` James Bottomley
2023-09-25  9:38                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-25 14:14                     ` Dan Carpenter
2023-09-25 16:50                     ` Linus Torvalds
2023-09-07  9:48       ` Dan Carpenter
2023-09-07 11:04         ` Segher Boessenkool
2023-09-07 11:22           ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-07 12:24             ` Segher Boessenkool
2023-09-07 11:23           ` Dan Carpenter
2023-09-07 12:30             ` Segher Boessenkool
2023-09-12  9:50               ` Richard Biener
2023-10-23  5:19                 ` Eric Gallager
2023-09-08  8:39       ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-08  8:38     ` Christoph Hellwig
2023-09-08 23:21       ` Dave Chinner
2023-09-07  0:48   ` Bagas Sanjaya
2023-09-07  3:07     ` Guenter Roeck

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