ksummit.lists.linux.dev archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>
To: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
Cc: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>, Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch>,
	 Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
	Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
	 Josef Bacik <josef@toxicpanda.com>,
	ksummit@lists.linux.dev,  Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	Song Liu <song@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainer burnout
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:55:11 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACRpkdbfSzNwkwnew-5YN4j4yBjgh=fCiaKdPmiRbViTdOcXkw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAADnVQ+6=RjVziJG6rXwiC0+dEKGTGFNPUgsa4dyPP66NyTbog@mail.gmail.com>

Alexei, thanks for returning the conversation
to this very important topic.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 1:55 AM Alexei Starovoitov
<alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com> wrote:

> BPF has solid CI that helps a lot, but the maintainer burnout is acutely felt.
> The main reason for burnout is patch flood.

I agree this is an important cause.
Even worse is any kind of social conflict or bad mood in the community.
Science has studied stress, what we mostly run into is called "microstress".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_stress

> The maintainer's day looks like non-stop code review.
> The patch backlog just doesn't end.

I've been there too :(

> We're trying to encourage active developers to be code reviewers as well
> via positive/negative scores:
> https://lore.kernel.org/bpf/ZJx8sBW%2FQPOBswNF@google.com/
>
> It doesn't help much yet. All incoming kernel contributors assume
> that it's a maintainer's job to do code reviews.
> Developers just send patches and wait. It doesn't occur to them that
> reviewing other patches will help them land their own.

The DRI/DRM community has group maintainership that works a little
bit.
Essentially it boils down to ask people to review your stuff and you
will review and also merge their stuff in return.
Sometimes this works.
Especially if you are a circle of acquaintances working full
time on similar things, yay! So much support.
When you are a sporadic contributor it doesn't work as well.
Because you cannot always find some matching contribution to
review and you feel like begging.
So different solutions for different contributors may be needed.

> To address maintainer burnout we need to change the culture of the community
> and transform active developers to active code reviewers.
> We're looking for ideas on how to do that.

I agree.

To deal with the symptoms (feeling stressed) when it gets too much
for me personally I have different coping mechanisms.

The basic idea is to do stuff that generate the opposite of stress.
This could be outside of work, but also working on stuff in the
kernel that gives a feeling of immediate accomplishment and
closure is good.

Such as maintaining some drivers and systems that are old,
so nobody is begging you to fix it now now now. Paying of some
old techical debt. That's nice.

Drilling into a specific bug that is not urgent can also be very
de-stressing, it's hard work but nobody is dependent on you
fixing it now. You don't even need to come up with a solution.

Yours,
Linus Walleij

  reply	other threads:[~2023-08-18 13:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-08-16 18:08 Josef Bacik
2023-08-16 20:14 ` Luis Chamberlain
2023-08-17  9:39   ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-17 12:36     ` Andrew Lunn
2023-08-17 15:19       ` Jakub Kicinski
2023-08-17 23:54         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2023-08-18 13:55           ` Linus Walleij [this message]
2023-08-18 15:09             ` Jakub Kicinski
2023-08-18 17:07               ` Linus Torvalds
2023-08-19  6:45                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-08-21 15:35                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-22  7:41                     ` Jiri Kosina
2023-08-22  9:05                       ` Hannes Reinecke
2023-08-22 10:13                         ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-08-22 11:25                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-21 19:23                   ` Vegard Nossum
2023-08-22  4:07                     ` Dave Airlie
2023-08-22  9:46                     ` Jan Kara
2023-08-22 10:10                       ` Christian Brauner
2023-08-22 10:20                         ` Jan Kara
2023-08-22 11:29                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-22 11:05                       ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-08-22 11:32                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-22 13:47                           ` Leon Romanovsky
2023-08-22 13:30                         ` Jan Kara
2023-08-29 12:54                     ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-13  9:02                     ` Dan Carpenter
2023-08-21  8:50                 ` Daniel Vetter
2023-08-21 15:18                   ` Jakub Kicinski
2023-08-22  4:12                   ` Dave Airlie
2023-08-18 15:26             ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-18 15:40               ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2023-08-18 18:36                 ` Mark Brown
2023-08-21 16:13                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-18 16:10               ` Mark Brown
2023-08-21 16:04                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-24 21:30               ` Jonathan Cameron
2023-08-25  7:05                 ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2023-08-17 12:00   ` Jani Nikula
2023-08-17 12:17     ` Mark Brown
2023-08-17 12:42       ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-17 13:56         ` Miguel Ojeda
2023-08-17 15:03           ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-17 17:41             ` Miguel Ojeda
2023-08-18 15:30               ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-18 16:23                 ` Mark Brown
2023-08-18 17:17                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-08-18 18:00                     ` Mark Brown
2023-08-17 14:46         ` Mark Brown
2023-08-17 14:22     ` Steven Rostedt
2023-08-17 15:31       ` Jani Nikula
2023-08-17 14:46 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-08-17 15:33   ` Josef Bacik
2023-08-17 17:10     ` Rodrigo Vivi

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CACRpkdbfSzNwkwnew-5YN4j4yBjgh=fCiaKdPmiRbViTdOcXkw@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=linus.walleij@linaro.org \
    --cc=alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com \
    --cc=andrew@lunn.ch \
    --cc=jlayton@kernel.org \
    --cc=josef@toxicpanda.com \
    --cc=ksummit@lists.linux.dev \
    --cc=kuba@kernel.org \
    --cc=laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com \
    --cc=mcgrof@kernel.org \
    --cc=song@kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox