From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-yw1-f174.google.com (mail-yw1-f174.google.com [209.85.128.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D22EC38FB5 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:48:00 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=linaro.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=linaro.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=linaro.org header.i=@linaro.org header.b="uG1qcbMI" Received: by mail-yw1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-59f6492b415so23639047b3.0 for ; Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; t=1696625280; x=1697230080; darn=lists.linux.dev; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=peNtMoQ8cpMvlaSX7jRFKJTEXlpXeSpRD2DQQ4RjTkU=; b=uG1qcbMILdOko+1OOA6ZKmQbEJzV8ph9+0Xl/QWAZuKoeHS1mjQVotjihk4Bwhi7gu fxXT8qVp5jcxblorRb7/z/NyAF/kl3vTpc/iuWi1A6RmLl/5rBw3ayh3jA0O6aV7wnZK B+uBVBtmzW12kHAhwYvaTGW+iU4euo1X8MdCf862FE/kJYAMMJfUPMQKLZF/W9pPvBD2 kfBqe/SkYUi8eKt553kdwyIKiaVVFnzvsIWKojWfSn7JEf8VmOK0xiuMp9DMDTqgyVT9 kYfu1v40U3Fp7IggbHV9VXObyeQw8+QlIrDxMHAEGlA0sZzmMSWDNPPoRum7obs4QvSW Jkig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696625280; x=1697230080; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=peNtMoQ8cpMvlaSX7jRFKJTEXlpXeSpRD2DQQ4RjTkU=; b=oiu4DGgzwR5FF3vH5oq9BTY/eZmYxbaqAaPzZ5f8SD9r5JSUG/9+uauDCqS5bNIX4H J9xgyCSqugIC3P1CRices2CcNNSzzv5oeJxYFBf4HrfMsItiy2b9xZ2A1SWYoIvqgnT/ oj/02zRb7843CYlhmTJDHd+/B45x7Kb2v574Q2uvMkk1hBz5xN+bSjTAOcdXQsP5RhUp W2AsVYlx0dPxjcgyNalYMYHQ7SEa6JcOinfw/JQJdMFW9sYcaTl9FVT+gM6zqbj0Jz5u gg5X4LIFSWR1h8ntdDobxX2emEEvpKoFYG4jvtnB7OYbZuN9/kEuayj+pCZlc6fU9P68 HMvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxbSu8kXbQrYCnQdQDIZ+wIcp5UgODNQWxNMXVGEHz+RLFfgoNs 22d9n1YraC9HMMuiNJXExWwm9mvkdh0AIauV7LIIcw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFbogZMKcm0LynaT6kY7RXh8OxtXjddeNY9U4CSim/w0g9/0As/MX+Gd0z12dAY7/OOk/ijKAYdRB7Q69VcLEI= X-Received: by 2002:a81:6c95:0:b0:59f:7c4d:33ae with SMTP id h143-20020a816c95000000b0059f7c4d33aemr3387593ywc.21.1696625279759; Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230919121001.7bc610d4@gandalf.local.home> <20231005180833.GA975221@nvidia.com> In-Reply-To: <20231005180833.GA975221@nvidia.com> From: Linus Walleij Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 22:47:48 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group To: Jason Gunthorpe Cc: Mark Brown , Steven Rostedt , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 8:08=E2=80=AFPM Jason Gunthorpe wro= te: > It would be nice to stop talking about this in terms of sides and > focus on the submitter/maintainer relationship as a whole. The issues > I'm aware of are not CoC violations, but nevertheless they have upset > people. There are a whole host of behaviors sumitters/maintainers can > choose to do that range hurtful to non-productive. (...) > I don't want to be a downer but I've chatted with a enough people now > to say that things seem to be getting worse - it *feels* worse to > participate these days. eg I just finished a nice big series for > something outside the areas I maintain and I'm dreading the process of > merging it :\ Then I think: I wonder if people feel the same way about > my areas? No idea, nobody says. What are these things? I've had the same feeling and I can think of some that would give me the same fear and feel like a newbie contributor once again. Mostly I think it's good for me to feel like that, but that is maybe not universal= ly true. One thing I clearly noticed are increased barriers to entry for newcomers, for project size, "professionalism", etc leading to endless patch reviews with increasingly nitty review comments, leading to perfect-is-the-enemy-of-good situations with all the best intentions from all sides. Linus Walleij