ksummit.lists.linux.dev archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@coreos.com>
Cc: "Bradley M. Kuhn" <bkuhn@sfconservancy.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:25:03 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFxXroS=_Mfyg+-3WF0KwqvPXJBKT0tjryWbDUx6G9Qvkw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPeXnHs_9=m9R+JO=O_p_Q390b1DgnsKyMgP6kGiPyBGn=+3_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@coreos.com> wrote:
>
> No, we're not. I mean, sure, if what you care about is corporate
> support, we're doing fine.

What I care about is getting code contributions back. That's kind of
the whole *point* of the GPLv2. Not the legalese. Growing the source
code base by having participation in the project.

You try to dismiss it as "if what you care about is corporate
support", with the implication that that would be somehow
small-minded.

But that corporate support is exactly what you then on the other hand
claim to be trying to _force_ with the enforcement actions.

And the thing is, there really are lots of very good reasons to
believe that we're getting more code willing code contributions back
thanks to friendly terms with corporations, compared to any enforced
action and being difficult.

It turns out that corporations actually *want* to be compliant for the
most part. At least as long as they see you as a friend, not a foe.

And lawsuits tend to turn friends into foes.

See what the BusyBox maintainer who actually went down the lawsuit
path says in [1].

So I care about actually getting source code back.

One fairly well-known definition of insanity is "doing the same thing
over and over again and expecting different results".

Let's learn from previous mistakes, rather repeating the same old
mistake like you seem set on always doing.

The FSF already tried the antagonistic model, which is why people
started using "Open Source" instead.

We have been very successful exactly because we didn't have the insane
antagonism.

                 Linus

[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/478361/

  reply	other threads:[~2016-08-26  4:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 173+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-08-26  2:46 Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26  3:07 ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26  4:25   ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2016-08-26  4:48     ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26  5:24       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26  5:35         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 15:28         ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 16:34           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 16:48             ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 17:21               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 17:49                 ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:03                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 19:29                     ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 19:45                     ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:53                       ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 19:55                         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:58                           ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 21:41                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-26 23:04                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-26 23:34                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-27  0:03                               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-27  4:00                           ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-26 19:59                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 16:52             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 19:36             ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-26 20:09               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 15:23 ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-26 16:37   ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 17:19     ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-27 15:43       ` Greg KH
2016-08-27 17:14         ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-27 18:47           ` Julia Lawall
2016-08-27 18:35 ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-27 22:50   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-28  7:47   ` Greg KH
2016-08-28  9:54     ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29 17:42     ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-29 18:49       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 19:04         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 18:00           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:25             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 19:31               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-29 20:19         ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-29 21:31       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-29 21:52         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-29 21:59         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 23:05           ` Guenter Roeck
2016-08-30  4:32           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-08-26 19:33 Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 21:19 ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-26 21:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 22:42   ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 23:02     ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-26 23:58       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27  0:19         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-27  1:30           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27  7:00           ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-26 23:54   ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-27 16:26     ` Greg KH
2016-08-27 21:18       ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  1:43         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  2:02           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  3:10             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:42               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28 20:51                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:24           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28 12:55             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 14:06               ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29  6:26                 ` Greg KH
2016-08-29 11:10                   ` Harald Welte
2016-08-30 17:38                   ` Mark Brown
2016-08-30 18:04                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:36                       ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-28 15:43               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28 19:36                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 20:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 15:35                     ` Steven Rostedt
2016-08-29 15:51                       ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-29 19:45                         ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-29 16:26                     ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 17:13                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-28 16:26               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28 19:58                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 22:54                   ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-29  9:01                     ` Harald Welte
2016-08-30 16:15               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 16:45                 ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 17:20                   ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:15                     ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 19:17                       ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-31  2:58                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-31 18:51                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-31  8:37                         ` Greg KH
2016-08-31 18:53                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 23:19                       ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 17:49                   ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 18:17                     ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 18:28                       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 17:10                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 17:16                   ` Luck, Tony
2016-08-30 17:40                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 17:37                   ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-28 15:37             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  5:09           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27 23:02       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27 23:13         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-27 23:29           ` Jeremy Allison
     [not found]           ` <CAPeXnHsTskZhwS6Ckp=xRzxbwax9FrMc5gRFmFmySY-Pq3KexA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]             ` <CAPeXnHtqc5fYUV89H2E4g-SQmFNmc=3bj1NiCRVAWg=WoP0R7g@mail.gmail.com>
2016-08-27 23:30               ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-27 23:49                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-28  0:02                   ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-28  0:16                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 16:57                       ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-27 23:35           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  4:47             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28  5:17               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  5:38               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  2:58         ` Steven Rostedt
2016-08-28  4:34           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  8:04             ` Greg KH
2016-08-28 15:58               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  3:18         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:40           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  6:25             ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29 11:24       ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-29 11:50         ` Greg KH
2016-08-30  9:57           ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-30 15:33             ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-08-30 16:04               ` Guenter Roeck
2016-08-30 19:44                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-08-31  8:24                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2016-08-31  9:28                   ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-30 16:55               ` Mark Brown
2016-08-24  5:30 Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 13:08 ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 14:25   ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 14:39     ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-24 15:21       ` Mark Brown
2016-08-24 16:54       ` Randy Dunlap
2016-08-24 17:39       ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 17:54         ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-24 18:30         ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-24 19:57           ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 20:19             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:13             ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 22:01               ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-24 17:38     ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 14:38   ` Daniel Vetter
2016-08-24 14:44     ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-24 15:29   ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-24 17:47     ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 18:24       ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 20:41         ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 21:09           ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-24 21:21             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:33               ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-24 21:42                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:46                   ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-25 16:27               ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-24 20:50       ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-24 21:54         ` Greg KH
2016-08-25  4:06           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-25  6:37             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-25  7:03               ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-25 20:03                 ` Dave Airlie
2016-08-25 20:20                   ` James Bottomley
2016-08-25 20:28                     ` Dave Airlie
2016-08-26  0:59             ` Greg KH
2016-08-26  2:30               ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 16:34                 ` Luck, Tony
2016-08-26 11:49               ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  7:48                 ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-26 12:03             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 12:33               ` Christoph Hellwig

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CA+55aFxXroS=_Mfyg+-3WF0KwqvPXJBKT0tjryWbDUx6G9Qvkw@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=bkuhn@sfconservancy.org \
    --cc=ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=mjg59@coreos.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox