From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E551223D7FB for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:42:37 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1765165360; cv=none; b=oYg1IWsbEOoYJoKVO6Pd7f3QdLAFpXoL1Lt2jeE5B9+4ddtdj+lVIBEYvpkyDbPrSsAhI67Qtv1+MOGY1+Wjm7VfyhYrr3F+aJS9wtubmPYBOR4xmgNu06pMAOz3t0jzRYkCGz4maT4dIjkDracJacnAGddnV9jFBCv9+dwbppM= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1765165360; c=relaxed/simple; bh=UofDsbD5TWswc5Sj+9HMVGYwEBv73cAtJBi+MnDspWQ=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=HKuu874SHqYE76+3ZdsAjRzJvUa8HpNDwY4NAsaj7ZOiegsjkF6hRZoOBEWMHeUwWYRuoyWmeeSMc2EMnyFshij6Nap09B+YacxCOw0DyS2IxM6c9FQVYhU5YmKIxCpN85mzDizbtTanwtmPO/UkOgZ/44N7ukkx9RGa4mmMWsA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b=sdMF33Kz; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=HansenPartnership.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hansenpartnership.com header.i=@hansenpartnership.com header.b="sdMF33Kz" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1765165356; bh=UofDsbD5TWswc5Sj+9HMVGYwEBv73cAtJBi+MnDspWQ=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=sdMF33KzQS5ubxy7UST4wKd86tajdp6lUqhDydZ8hgqr2ZcN/D5mPy3uLDIo4S1Vd L2FWtY3yMfPgInpaYPDGAtR/1SUkeEVIbstO8NVyEXtdvFPSveEXu1nrh9ZkQXdDGo lnOJZvbxkvUXg44Dc3yOywByIFbK/M17D54aqdgY= Received: from [172.20.4.117] (122x212x32x58.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp [122.212.32.58]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B16E1C0160; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 22:42:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <88091c9ac1d8f20bade177212445a60c752ba8b5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] The role of AI and LLMs in the kernel process From: James Bottomley To: Steven Rostedt , Jonathan Corbet Cc: "H. Peter Anvin" , Sasha Levin , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:42:32 +0900 In-Reply-To: <20251207221532.4d8747f5@debian> References: <4BDD9351-E58A-4951-9953-00F1E9F24FB4@zytor.com> <87zf7tg2dk.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <20251207221532.4d8747f5@debian> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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 8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Sun, 2025-12-07 at 22:15 -0500, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:59:19 -0700 > Jonathan Corbet wrote: >=20 > > > I contend there is a huge difference between *code* and > > > descriptions/documentation/... >=20 > >=20 > > As you might imagine, I'm not fully on board with that.=C2=A0 Code is > > assumed plagiarized, but text is not?=C2=A0 Subtly wrong documentation > > is OK? > >=20 > > I think our documentation requires just as much care as our code > > does. >=20 > I assumed what hpa was mentioning about documentation, may be either > translation of original text of the submitter, or AI looking at the > code that was created and created a change log. In either case, the > text was generated from the input of the author I think this is precisely the problem Jon was referring to: you're saying that if AI generates *text* based on input prompts it's not a copyright problem, but if AI generates *code* based on input prompts, it is. As simply a neural net operational issue *both* input to output sets are generated in the same way by the AI process and would have the same legal probability of being copyright problems. i.e. if the first likely isn't a copyright problem, the second likely isn't as well (and vice versa). > . Where as AI generated code likely comes from somebody else's code. > Perhaps AI was trained on somebody else's text, but the output will > likely not be a derivative of it as the input is still original. That's an incorrect statement: if the output is a derivative of the training (which is a big if given the current state of the legal landscape) and the training set was copyrighted, then even a translated text using that training data will pick up the copyright violation regardless of input prompting. Regards, James