From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from gimli.kloenk.de (gimli.kloenk.de [49.12.72.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A38641F12FC for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=49.12.72.200 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740052642; cv=none; b=WMGAdIjBLyaBZwmYTkWehHGizlfUj/hscC8d4y0wGjjJC2mkmKULfsnabIiY5cEgSBqhHLrQQOwyprxvag2SCrNMgZrMFP9vHHOEMW/II/MKJl+fE4+f/NYdu/taFDb0YRSOSDsbrL1A8erUuhUdXwoVcrPZMy4LP9buML2aQi4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740052642; c=relaxed/simple; bh=CArsqcWhGizkeiG7wKjwp3IOv3hSwBEcxCzbBao/Zk4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=fuQWb/bJ9rdkgwpRi4B92U6TEkDr/ecUdseLcmHgwSgdZQ/2wHEUR+s2wun+c4Lm2XR2rL0LFRf7vKqaaBjIE/G3h0jEfj2CEdAmKvNNOEUFVZPjodPm1if5Iuslz7HCuG4w29PHFub8qJikasIJkqB5Mxqc7Bpb79K4CK2SMbs= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=kloenk.dev; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kloenk.dev; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kloenk.dev header.i=@kloenk.dev header.b=Q1cW/5Yu; arc=none smtp.client-ip=49.12.72.200 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=kloenk.dev Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kloenk.dev Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kloenk.dev header.i=@kloenk.dev header.b="Q1cW/5Yu" From: Fiona Behrens DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kloenk.dev; s=mail; t=1740052632; bh=q5JoUJwBv/CiMFU1ElCY7M1WksjUZ2azkZJP1PhEzUo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=Q1cW/5YuayzXA0m4zWXQcoXS1FcZ1g1bJWMZSEBf3BCizvf6WYeQwV+FU57thRTB8 2d6ShjXwigB9g+3CU/MYhxi8nx+FWO36jIFkK9mUKpCgT20T21Ja72pAC1LFof8crc OTit9X7Fg69WJNn8qVbsHLHFx3IGf3TWWGLE0ajY= To: Jarkko Sakkinen Cc: Bart Van Assche , Steven Rostedt , Jason Gunthorpe , Kees Cook , Miguel Ojeda , Christoph Hellwig , rust-for-linux , Linus Torvalds , Greg KH , David Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy In-Reply-To: <89f2547edcaaba53d9965cab9133d809607330ac.camel@kernel.org> (Jarkko Sakkinen's message of "Thu, 20 Feb 2025 10:13:52 +0200") References: <202502191026.8B6FD47A1@keescook> <20250219140821.27fa1e8a@gandalf.local.home> <202502191117.8E1BCD4615@keescook> <20250219202751.GA42073@nvidia.com> <20250219154610.30dc6223@gandalf.local.home> <97841173-1de8-4221-8bf3-3470a5ac98a7@acm.org> <89f2547edcaaba53d9965cab9133d809607330ac.camel@kernel.org> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:57:11 +0100 Message-ID: <87pljc6d7s.fsf@kloenk.dev> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jarkko Sakkinen writes: > On Wed, 2025-02-19 at 12:52 -0800, Bart Van Assche wrote: >> On 2/19/25 12:46 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote: >> > I do feel that new drivers written in Rust would help with the >> > vulnerabilities that new drivers usually add to the kernel. >> >> For driver developers it is easier to learn C than to learn Rust. I'm >> not sure that all driver developers, especially the "drive by" >> developers, have the skills to learn Rust. > > IMHO, Rust is not that difficult to learn but it is difficult to > run. > > One point of difficulty for me still is the QA part, not really the > code. QuickStart discusses on how to install all the shenanigans > with distribution package managers. > > The reality of actual kernel development is that you almost never > compile/run host-to-host, rendering that part of the documentation > in the battlefield next to useless. > > Instead it should have instructions for BuildRoot, Yocto and > perhaps NixOS (via podman). It should really explain this instead > of dnf/apt-get etc. What do you mean with via podman for NixOS? I do still have on my ToDo list to build and publish a better nix development shell for kernel with rust enabled, and could also add a section on how to build a NixOS iso in the same nix code. But sadly time is a finite resource and so did not yet got to it. Fiona > >> >> Bart. >> > > BR, Jarkko