From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from ms.lwn.net (ms.lwn.net [45.79.88.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D92652940D for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 23:09:00 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=45.79.88.28 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1756595342; cv=none; b=mGhjyjRNoYjVZ1Alr4G2MTN13+V5fIFmX62umr1aeV9aHtzxyZ8jGaaYg6zhbBHh9ApluJXXlTHHrAdTfGT+pm1HiYG6wTmI4dbJUguMQHkr0RT55jZw93EEhrCj1bQMznl1B8wcSSsZZ3XXcaIrSUhNeVl/kGmn6qEELZw+l9o= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1756595342; c=relaxed/simple; bh=LdAEqHX2oQ3xtzFXDEpvQ1zDjnl+Z2GAhZegTd2IHaw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZvdWfdjh07vM6/4hzjag3ESUxvTdDF+yFwHddPelFDE57i9qcLKM1mOMSLf7HALiyTRXbvYtk0Fl8Xr6pNs91ICYcTvsCE1WCQyJOe39+PNxuRAvftYFZbvAYh0aJYiWAdY+FpOcscwGgqp5c+gWTleEMEXrEbAn98538CdCQ8w= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=lwn.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lwn.net; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lwn.net header.i=@lwn.net header.b=jeBdiy3q; arc=none smtp.client-ip=45.79.88.28 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=lwn.net Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lwn.net Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lwn.net header.i=@lwn.net header.b="jeBdiy3q" DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 ms.lwn.net 02E7040AE2 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lwn.net; s=20201203; t=1756595334; bh=PBDbakEdOvzzqeqVqQWRwqaI4NhIjQu67A1X25kx+8U=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=jeBdiy3qkFEkjn1y0AYVCTfjGeUJ5n2+5hGaeergggnBmE5A4s2mRjucjUzcZlReq ++6FDh0jcAd/O1krWxExh4+98EY7wD7HLw0KJGJ0Iu1ravWEGs2nZ0Xea/VuHFKh76 rFEglHyKINclVYPE/iWV0aq4PFGiOtili3J56nj+G4VhicnF1QRJzlaDyeEx2URK2N DTU0zg+agGObIYTY2svVaI/gVb8ZbnbNdHa79/giA2udoJYlQUNZCgr99mh4yK4Jad kIcmv9DDv9cDohiIpXK/2udl6/T4ragdV4XtV+VQpV4/f7nI5l2PNawT4nkrRDhlUJ WFIxu8DRLV2nQ== Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2601:280:4600:2da9::1fe]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ms.lwn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02E7040AE2; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 23:08:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Jonathan Corbet To: Laurent Pinchart , Vegard Nossum Cc: ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Linux Documentation , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , Akira Yokosawa , Bagas Sanjaya , Jani Nikula , Randy Dunlap Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] Kernel documentation - update and future directions In-Reply-To: <20250830222351.GA1705@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> References: <87plcndkzs.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <20250828230104.GB26612@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <87wm6l0w2y.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <930d1b37-a588-43db-9867-4e1a58072601@oracle.com> <20250830222351.GA1705@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2025 17:08:53 -0600 Message-ID: <87h5xo1k6y.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Laurent Pinchart writes: >> > Last year we tried an experiment with a bit of funding from the LF to >> > create a bit of paid documentation; for a number of reasons, that >> > experiment did not work out. But it seems there should be a way to make >> > some forward progress on this front. > > Is there anything we can learn from that failure and that number of > reasons to make the next attempt more successful ? I think that the experiment didn't work for a couple of reasons: - The topic area that we settled upon was a relatively advanced one, we really should have started with something simpler. - The writer who was assigned was not really up to the task; I found myself repeatedly having to explain basic aspects of the C programming language, for example. That made it almost impossible to get a satisfactory document out of the process, made worse by the first reason listed above. What it comes down to, perhaps, is the same old problem: the people who understand the problem domain well enough to document it can generally make a more comfortable living creating more undocumented code instead. jon