From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B40081401F; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:00:08 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="4uAFj/pj" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:In-Reply-To:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=UJ4YSQEoarmGJufwe7uM+Jd9pWRnWY1wsyNnjbOiVAk=; b=4uAFj/pj/xypwcOUBGnk8I+E2w 00CNiuXc5CBSzDNJ24MvWmnTplAAJWWXe37el1adJHuzbtGo5jKD7PteGdTbJ9kJJ86ltbVBFRbNV NITvyh+ByEM3mXeRt6h8Y/RDhWEvisepKXTHLrqZ8yrzGZPCgV01hWBv+RF+Y8Puu3X+vsx9FAgK4 CW2V3bW+QFZrYA1JgkeJ+6lUZQDp2Pqk24rub/qPz5gX0zcrs6HOMDud+Vq8OCZ+2X7emW8KTYWIl mKjC1VT4ensKJc2bYm0KGVtKLjjvydzt39CHBzxRKv17/301BprbYqzy+GZ1vz1io/nvn9cyS7JvR gPRdutvg==; Received: from [50.53.46.231] (helo=[192.168.254.15]) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.96 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1qvluz-00DDc8-37; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:00:02 +0000 Message-ID: <81685f3d-b130-4c09-a29e-56cc5235ac25@infradead.org> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:00:01 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: KTODO automated TODO lists Content-Language: en-US To: NeilBrown , Geert Uytterhoeven Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski , Andrew Morton , Dan Carpenter , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, outreachy@lists.linux.dev, kernel-janitors@vger.kernel.org References: <369bc919-1a1d-4f37-9cc9-742a86a41282@kadam.mountain> <20231023114949.34fc967988c354547f79c4e7@linux-foundation.org> <8ca50d4c-3c96-4efa-a111-fca04d580ab5@kernel.org> <169818295461.20306.14022136719064683486@noble.neil.brown.name> <169826846576.20306.981035382886610843@noble.neil.brown.name> From: Randy Dunlap In-Reply-To: <169826846576.20306.981035382886610843@noble.neil.brown.name> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 10/25/23 14:14, NeilBrown wrote: > On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: >> Hi Neil, >> >> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 11:29 PM NeilBrown wrote: >>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: >>>> On 23/10/2023 20:49, Andrew Morton wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:11:36 +0300 Dan Carpenter wrote: >>>>>> Yesterday someone on my lists just sent an email looking for kernel >>>>>> tasks. >>>>> >>>>> Well here's a task: write a bot which follows the mailing lists and >>>>> sends people nastygrams if one of their emails is more than 95%(?) >>>>> quoted text. >>>>> >>>>> It's happening significantly more lately. Possibly because the gmail >>>>> client helpfully hides quoted text. >>>> >>>> I would also point to reviewers and maintainers who give a Rb/Ack tag: >>>> 1. somewhere at the top, without any footer like Best regards, and then >>>> quote entire patch, so I don't know shall I look for more comments after >>>> Rb/Ack? >>>> >>>> 2. quote entire email and then add Rb/Ack, so I need to figure out >>>> whether there was something between the hundreds of lines of text or not. >>> >>> Here we all are, brilliantly talented computer programmers who spend >>> our days making amazing fast digital devices do amazingly clever and >>> subtle things, inventing time-saving tools and processing vast amounts >>> of data without blinking, but for some reason we think the task of >>> skipping over a few thousand lines that all start with '> " is too hard >>> for us and that we should, in stead, complain to some other human to >>> convince them to make our life easier for us. >>> >>> Does anyone else see the irony? >> >> Please compare the numbers: >> 1. 1 sender removes irrelevant parts, >> 2. N receivers skip irrelevant parts. > > That is one way to look at the numbers. > Another is: > > 12 - fix about a dozen MUAs to summaries quotes properly > 12000 - fix an unknownable number of people to quote just exactly the > amount that their particular audience is going to want > > and when it comes to fixing-code versus fixing-people, I know which this > community is better at. > > I guess there is also the option > > 1 - fix vger.kernel.org to reject postings from people who don't > think and quote like "us", because we already have too many > contributor and want to block the heretics > > This is really just a form of the "platform problem" which lwn.net has > occasionally written about. The "problem" is that we treat the platform > (library code or other infrastructure) as fixed and develop ugly hacks > in our own code to work around some shortcoming, rather the going into > the platform and fixing it once for everyone there. The problem AFAICT is that many (most?) of us expect a certain level of etiquette but we are not seeing it in some posts. -- ~Randy