From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C90D3824B3 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:19:43 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718965185; cv=none; b=qc7bDS8xT9wzUmYd5OrzgFJModiTcBNoQskGlAKzX578cY/9m9W+3fXoWzbBvlUE4J6zc23NIM94ihT9eCzHY3VDVSt1mBkHmr93mfJQlr/elFCyZEBLJHfIoy1mlikRZeMGfpUtgP1QdQZcVjcwIIt7EZdk4jSnWesFAndEizY= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718965185; c=relaxed/simple; bh=I69HOBwtxgvkjJ40/JaJzeJO4JEj7QvXxq1paAiJFyY=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=KCj85rtfadkfrPKfvIIZspcowRDARVi3eBpywJby/sTIGpYCzk5XdeA6m8ubp3hV7C9gLyYc3JJb/cue2ojCF6+uBMztoLLgkNJbfBBbI0d8dHpW6CyymDIxR6NK8DDrgMDEygR5Zy3NvzWxt0QlmhwOcAioFZs5CHtnX0fsUYI= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; 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t=1718965183; x=1719397183; b=RA786SBnNRJL5uTxPiS8RRywWf/x4OKaTZNLUxa6YUeL0/5R9qgwyiUlLSNSk mVEFGbKYK/gULFYFNDXPeciz//k4IGFY1e0xR7TQl3RhH+8F6PZYkepEJsBv65lN0h+arszIHQa44 dUBT2Xzft1r3j0sph9LW+CA4cnD6unEjLKJO/SbqlG4g84HJk6QqJlwsYyKE54uo0Jk+udJvvF77/ 47MYw9zPglT4MHQLfKmSrl2QnIWqSET+S72QjSM8ZVk8L8xU1eHy+3gtwV07zNzzwGDEqbpROn7YX HCaXmb8ja2DPicvdybn5I1EwPSGqvcEIObYspFyDpFb7Dx0aYA==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8980:2478:8cde:aa2c:f324:937e]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1sKbMl-00018i-D3; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 12:19:35 +0200 Message-ID: <7a6256ae-657a-44ee-9991-2b5782317855@leemhuis.info> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 12:19:34 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] [3/4] Elevate handling of regressions that made it to releases deemed for end users To: Jiri Kosina Cc: Jani Nikula , Laurent Pinchart , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <55e89d2c-fa25-4daa-805e-5aca31b321bf@leemhuis.info> <20240613113455.GH6019@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <87jzijeony.fsf@intel.com> <9e417917-91b9-4506-9fbe-d6436ed48b9e@leemhuis.info> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: en-US, de-DE Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1718965183;5230f5dd; X-HE-SMSGID: 1sKbMl-00018i-D3 On 21.06.24 08:47, Jiri Kosina wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > I'll be repeating myself, but I personally really don't like any such > strong timelines in kernel documentation. FWIW, I really tried hard to avoid *strong* wording, which is why the sections about timing use words like "aim for". > Everybody > of course tries to get the regressions fixed as soon as possible once it's > identified. We have a different perspective here, as I often see what the scenario at the start of the thread describes: a fix is developed soon (so up to that point we agree), but then take relative long to reach mainline (and thus affected stable series that contain the culprit, too). > Sometimes it takes longer, because it's complex. Sure, that's not a problem I care about here at all -- unless a revert could fix the regression quickly instead, especially if the culprit made it to a stable tree somehow. > Sometimes people are on > holidays. Sometimes it just falls in between cracks, and people need > to be pinged to look into that. This will always happen and that does not really bother me. > Kernel documentation wording is not going to stop any of that. Definitely not, and that's not the goal I'm trying to reach here. Dcumentation is meant to outline roughly what's expected to bring everyone on the same page, as right now we have different interpretations of posts from Linus people might or might not have seen coupled with a combination of unwritten rules, and written documentation containing conflicting and partly outdated information. Ciao, Thorsten