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t=1718715532; x=1719147532; b=xHTNgvPbvZGs4cyZ8srD76R4FaXFYJM61e5eNX4KorS7gw4prTHAo0T83Xyso qhbeIgyY0G+y1MSSk+882MsDhB7tUeS0HMtFgeID/hms+Nu7lMXq1s+mCNEbG+h4oF8956NycWrLv 4lxG2iOZSKQFQOEl/sJ4x1bNmGdG6Cm30ygKJQC1b8YKFG5b/p2CI0MhwMqCufnwGwr+lFlQRPyem pEabw8Fr9Y/iEnnKQLWwgEQo3oy/5PFQda1WkliROB3ZF7dNKLetZxP8Et18NRemEN4rzdCw9jHT7 semdg5yQbhkN6/KnqrvIdFA7Nbhsfpmedd7Qt1/VEOorlBI3yQ==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8980:2478:8cde:aa2c:f324:937e]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1sJYQD-0002wQ-QE; Tue, 18 Jun 2024 14:58:49 +0200 Message-ID: <635e47c6-c2ce-4a5b-9957-6efcdcfe2f00@leemhuis.info> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 14:58:38 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] [3/4] Elevate handling of regressions that made it to releases deemed for end users To: Mark Brown , Jiri Kosina Cc: Laurent Pinchart , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <55e89d2c-fa25-4daa-805e-5aca31b321bf@leemhuis.info> <20240613113455.GH6019@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: en-US, de-DE Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1718715532;d120db27; X-HE-SMSGID: 1sJYQD-0002wQ-QE On 14.06.24 16:10, Mark Brown wrote: > On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 01:39:00PM +0200, Jiri Kosina wrote: >> On Thu, 13 Jun 2024, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > >>> I don't think piling pressure will help. What could help is to reduce >>> pressure on already overloaded maintainers, to give them more time to >>> handle regressions. There have been multiple discussions about >>> co-maintainance models over the past few years, and some subsystems are >>> (slowly) moving forward. I would be more interested in participating in >>> that effort. > >> Fully agreed. That's exactly why a few days ago I proposed the topic about >> exploring the options of making the merge tree more deep (by delegating >> more and making the co-maintainership model more prominent), as that in my >> view is the only available solution to the current maintainer pressure >> problem. > > In my experience deeper maintainer trees are often a factor in slowing > down patches, passing things between maintainers often just inherently > adds delays even if nobody goes on holiday or whatever. >From what I see from the regressions perspective they are not ideal either. The slow down is one problem, unless the process is streamlined well. Another one from my biased point of view seems to be that a few of are far away from Linus and apparently not fully aware how he wants regressions to be handled. Which is not really surprising, as over the years there were quite a few cases where maintainers of core subsystems were not handled well either. But sooner or later that resulted in a clash with Linus[1] and from then on things worked better. For many sub-subsystem something like that never happened -- and the maintainers of the higher level subsystem can not have their eyes everywhere, so they do not notice such problems or are more lax and friendly. If I notice a regression is not handled well in a sub-subsystem I point it out (often in private) to the higher level maintainers. But that does it tedious, does not scale, and delays things. That's one of the reasons why written guidelines IMHO would be worth it. Ciao, Thorsten [1] see the quotes from Linus at the end of Documentation/process/handling-regressions.rst / https://docs.kernel.org/process/handling-regressions.html