From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [96.44.175.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C4A1C13C for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2023 19:03:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1694459030; bh=5AvBVXwbkkod10a/5EG2d/zEeWlAiJtQeNJz/f07Xvk=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=uGlXnqbyJUv+WppXTXaGItNVK9UFhi8czcKG0kf04tR8M/IQgqC8jkam0TkrPRT9Q 83Fw55LrKyR/6IAl/7XkDC6UHJHX2dj5B2TvpS3ADC7hRKg2rk04p3yknUh9IGLCj2 DO/m1G+zUTTJ9D7qVgghLchsuWB7IpnFgqOk/wvU= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E797C1285F3A; Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7hNSTzYXy-wG; Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:03:50 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hansenpartnership.com; s=20151216; t=1694459030; bh=5AvBVXwbkkod10a/5EG2d/zEeWlAiJtQeNJz/f07Xvk=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=uGlXnqbyJUv+WppXTXaGItNVK9UFhi8czcKG0kf04tR8M/IQgqC8jkam0TkrPRT9Q 83Fw55LrKyR/6IAl/7XkDC6UHJHX2dj5B2TvpS3ADC7hRKg2rk04p3yknUh9IGLCj2 DO/m1G+zUTTJ9D7qVgghLchsuWB7IpnFgqOk/wvU= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::c14]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 699E01285F31; Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5dd21470139df5de7f02608f453469023f50d704.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS/KERNEL SUMMIT] Trust and maintenance of file systems From: James Bottomley To: Theodore Ts'o Cc: Matthew Wilcox , Dave Chinner , Christoph Hellwig , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 15:03:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20230911031015.GF701295@mit.edu> References: <8dd2f626f16b0fc863d6a71561196950da7e893f.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <20230911031015.GF701295@mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.42.4 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 2023-09-10 at 23:10 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 03:51:42PM -0400, James Bottomley wrote: [...] > > Perhaps we should also go back to seeing if we can prize some > > resources out of the major moneymakers in the cloud space.  After > > all, a bug that could cause a cloud exploit might not be even > > exploitable on a personal laptop that has no untrusted users. > > Actually, I'd say this is backwards.  Many of these issues, and I'd > argue all that involve an maliciously corrupted file system, are not > actually an issue in the cloud space, because we *already* assume > that the attacker may have root.  After all, anyone can pay their $5 > CPU/hour, and get an Amazon or Google or Azure VM, and then run > arbitrary workloads as root. Well, that was just one example. Another way cloud companies could potentially help is their various AI projects: I seem to get daily requests from AI people for me to tell them just how AI could help Linux. When I suggest bug report triage and classification would be my number one thing, they all back off faster than a mouse crashing a cat convention with claims like "That's too hard a problem" and also that in spite of ChatGPT getting its facts wrong and spewing rubbish for student essays, it wouldn't survive the embarrassment of being ridiculed by kernel developers for misclassifying bug reports. I'm not sure peer pressure works on the AI community, but surely if enough of us asked, they might one day overcome their fear of trying it ... James