From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2D35405CD for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:52:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22DDDC433C7; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:52:42 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1695239562; bh=Axl6hWaVlkItjCeLpwDlrtUOWPQ0nK/1DbVZ5arkDeA=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=VL2ng5o/Pyx4m99qKfcRq72cub5KLCzjb2KEC5tr33S73sVkIeLTAkxTltfW4B9hH glWPaTBzzHsN2Zol94jr5QnWTn45F7GMK54uiVgjYgxbW2bMD//RgW01QCqmuBLWkI 1FOc5UFPsbFfJtwAQgPG6VfyTeDzFb7XdpwPX0w6o97PvL/IoI9vp3gXIAjR3yw3Nd RKx4sXFaQBLSNltO++JyWwsFyYYZRKCqoDDOaR+iG6Z9ZwrGYy7/o6oa2D0i0WPNN3 hrvRMIeAVVI2C70Ls0uTWageCosEWHmniOXM5L7upccVNmtDBhQg+IWIeuugsJPuWv iazZehtkBTb8A== Message-ID: <57b53325-3c40-641e-30de-5755650960f8@kernel.org> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 13:52:19 -0600 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1 Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group Content-Language: en-US To: Steven Rostedt Cc: Bart Van Assche , James Bottomley , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org, shuah References: <20230919121001.7bc610d4@gandalf.local.home> <20230919132112.19b700df@gandalf.local.home> <496f0b46-1a40-af25-ac1a-d4e7f1a8aad0@kernel.org> <20230919192148.1010cc74@gandalf.local.home> From: Shuah In-Reply-To: <20230919192148.1010cc74@gandalf.local.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9/19/23 17:21, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:55:29 -0600 > Shuah wrote: > >> As I replied to Ted and Randy, I think the proposal James pointed to is >> where we could start and evolve that discussion to the actions such as >> support group, instead of starting with a solution without looking at >> the bigger picture. >> >> https://lore.kernel.org/ksummit/ab9cfd857e32635f626a906410ad95877a22f0db.camel@HansenPartnership.com/ > > I saw this when James first posted it. I may have been the lone figure to > do so as I had to point it out when the topic came up a second time ;-) > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20230817104622.511c61b4@gandalf.local.home/ > > I'm all for having this discussion under James topic, but this idea of a > Support Group is something I've been discussing with other maintainers for > some time. I believe I even mentioned it to you while on the bus in Dublin. > Thank you. Yes. We talked about this last year at Dublin. Work of being an Open source developer and especially a maintainer demands emotional labor. This is definitely a risk factor for burnout. I happened to com across an article today about burnout risk factors and some of those are faced by maintainers and developers. If you are interested, I can send the link. > One of the things the TAB is working on is to come up with a "Communication > Style" document that will be focused on how submitters should speak to > maintainers and how maintainers should speak to submitters. The idea is to > help people understand the POV that others are coming from. But that's a > discussion for another day. > Formalizing the communication is a good idea - I keep translating maintainer and developer speak to new developers I mentor often enough to see the value of such an effort. :) > Anyway, with the majority of the [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] submissions related > to this, I think it should definitely be discussed at the maintainers > summit. > I would recommend discussion this prior to the Maintainer summit in an open session to get input from developers and maintainers who aren't invited to the maintainers summit myself included. thanks, -- Shuah