From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC65620314 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 16:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718208465; cv=none; b=auRAhPNtBit4CRV32Sfz71Kn0+fuhhy7W8e+b5qmXV/2DcXNAZ6DMWedqXCDUEPfX2gvBFQb9T5Qv1POzp6l6OrOBmPGRfCZKithf4tO9JsHyMhJ7LhgWFgWK/rxMUswC5fh/2ow+ac76FX5APPXdqSN2JTNzxwHwSFhO/YmZcc= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1718208465; c=relaxed/simple; bh=/47Bs2Hj1A/qCtpiRhqf3CMtrhOGjcUgOu1fWJgpoeQ=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=Q388x/zei0otLgOd3eexuWRspxK/84VpygRyRk17/L35LBksAw+XoSAUa56JkMRlWTsi3YT5+or6MRvoybMSZZJrxbui3vMR0zzoVPzUwE+jYVmRlZzi4MCKwU++twlxnI2LO1bBhrOwbwHVUX5zy4L5Dt9drDKCW9fgHT9Z9sE= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; 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t=1718208462; x=1718640462; b=PxI9aYvLQpGIdSAaZkE+vggDApn/AXuxLS8YOmdgmwIPiHPrQqbUTP1DQC8d6 u8LbKtl9Ugc3uXI/BBv0lANkKvFWXYlFkOjGhClxjdV39didf5UVH+em3+Z/Qh/Csf40IvmRSEs1s Re4TsoEk+Q6ILTQR2u6oz3M/5IdK+5DQ3d2dqpbJuZUkh5dEiv9tXzz2i+AZU97XOLSNcXT+USDUt +CKLCOV/LDClS4D9pnnjTpSXjBuYnvjt6W0n4t+3ekbB7eh8PPCv7tmo0VNEKHnnbjN/dYD39veRm ikHBNTcudnC3OyoBRZ9J+wohYPVGxNCMVdd6P401I7noeZ2Avg==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8980:2478:8cde:aa2c:f324:937e]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1sHQVf-0005TN-M4; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:07:39 +0200 Message-ID: <47793732-03f6-4cbb-a2a4-393ad9c96de9@leemhuis.info> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:07:39 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] regressions: our workflows are the biggest enemy To: Guenter Roeck , Steven Rostedt Cc: "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <5182e50a-3d13-4edc-8f2a-a024e0588177@leemhuis.info> <20240612112622.21bf7c89@rorschach.local.home> <9b28bd22-f4b7-4bb4-8471-cb131347b6e8@roeck-us.net> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: en-US, de-DE Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1718208462;7af90e77; X-HE-SMSGID: 1sHQVf-0005TN-M4 On 12.06.24 17:50, Guenter Roeck wrote: > On 6/12/24 08:26, Steven Rostedt wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 08:34:42 +0200 >> Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >> >>> The talk among others will describe why some workflow patterns are what >>> frequently leads to regressions -- and why they are also a factor why >>> some subsystems fix regression quickly, while others take weeks or >>> months to resolve. >> >> The above looks more than a TECH TOPIC. Stuff for the maintainers summit is still in my editor. >> If you have real numbers that point out workflows that are an issue, No, I sadly do not. And they would be flawed anyway, as there are many regressions I never become aware of -- and it's not really possible to determine from commits if they were fixing a regression or not. So it could easily be possible that I only see the bad cases and miss out on a lot of cases that a subsystem handles well. Not to mention that I currently miss out on a most DRM bugs, as they use a external bug tracker. Regzbot can monitor that now, but I have no easy means to become aware of regressions reported there. The idea was to start vising a handful of issue trackers every day or two and use a boring search, but as of now that's still an unrealized plan. >> I think this should be discussed >> at Maintainers Summit, and perhaps we should start "encouraging" people >> to change their workflows. Especially if we have hard data showing >> that it's not working. >> >> /me hopes he's not one of the ones with a bad workflow! > > Same here... Don't worry folks, my plan was to primarily mention the subsystems that from my point of view are doing a good job and highlight what they are doing well. Apart from maybe one case -- but I will only do so after asking the stakeholders for an okay. Ciao, Thorsten