From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (lamorak.hansenpartnership.com [198.37.111.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19F5E4414 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 11:40:47 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.37.111.173 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760096451; cv=none; b=O58TmqFSEiXmA8RqOAGU6DRrhWPnvllZL+XPi12hDL8ujSA1RdUlZNM+q7e9KHBatamVgSXY7hTCqWHyXx+kzAtXWFeo9kAxMat219w62TH4yNGh6zN+YRR92dvPHJCrnwSWAY+BxrrkvS02LpQVIXiuU2TMirvzJcdfRWj47IA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760096451; c=relaxed/simple; bh=tNiFa2UWlJtXFLGskYP1xnzNB7+I/ZOzwaK4QtPY98E=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; 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bh=tNiFa2UWlJtXFLGskYP1xnzNB7+I/ZOzwaK4QtPY98E=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=d20W/aBAwt3DYNipopsVeLHkvJsrBtFh5fLbkRS/goWvQ3QYZW+Mho7yka4MEO69o ywDdO/+FoTHHmIMeYlDrVAkwXsSD5RFlZE6URyn0+fwAGdSwGX9/CEOsK3FpFKXSNl F8904v8yBVw4vZQbmFDKvqvC3bKnIrPuGSzgSRwU= Received: from lingrow.int.hansenpartnership.com (unknown [IPv6:2601:5c4:4302:c21::a774]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lamorak.hansenpartnership.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 78D671C0069; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 07:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3996fd684c497c7bcb4ad406ff3cec99df7180df.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS / KERNEL SUMMIT] AI patch review tools From: James Bottomley To: Laurent Pinchart , Chris Mason Cc: "Bird, Tim" , Andrew Lunn , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" , Dan Carpenter , Alexei Starovoitov , Rob Herring Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 07:40:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20251010075413.GD29493@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> References: <20251008192934.GH16422@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20251009091405.GD12674@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20251010075413.GD29493@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> Autocrypt: addr=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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 8mT2Eh9SkH+YVOmaKsajgZgrBxA7fWmGoxXswEVxJIFj3vW7yNc0C5HaUdYa5iGOMs4kg2ht4s7yy7NRQuh7BifWjo6BQ6k4S1H+6axZucxhSV1L6zN9d+lr3Xo/vy1unzA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.3 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Fri, 2025-10-10 at 10:54 +0300, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > On Thu, Oct 09, 2025 at 06:03:45AM -0400, Chris Mason wrote: [...] > I'm not that concerned about being locked to a specific vendor, but > more about being locked to a proprietory technology. Today I'm sure > that we could get sponsorship from different LLM vendors. They're > competing to attract more users, so it would be in their interest. > Tomorrow, when the market will calm down, the story will be > different. >=20 > I liken this to building a dam to contain the patch flood. It could > give us some room to breathe, and we may then decide to ignore that > the water rises behind the flood gates. When that happens, we won't > be able to go back to where we were before if we later realize we > can't have FOSS-compatible flood gates. This is pre-supposing that AI will always be proprietary. Given the vast expansion of open source over the last couple of decades I wouldn't take that bet. > If we were to push the burden of running LLM-based review to > contributors this wouldn't affect us that much, but if we run it on > the maintainers' side (be it on the server side with bots that get > patches from mailing lists, CI systems that feed from patchwork, or > on the client side) the risk of vendor lock-in is higher. Pushing the burden on to contributors always causes more friction than building it into the CI. Plus if there's a cost involved you're making contribution pay for play which really doesn't work out well. > Maybe proprietary technology lock-in would be a better description > as this isn't about a single vendor. Well, firstly we've had this before: us with bitkeeper and most recently Kubernetes with Slack and everyone has survived. But secondly the far more likely scenario is that the AI stock bubble bursts and the investment dries up changing the way AI is done (definitely killing the who can by powerstations and huge hardware installations model of today) and who the players are (probably the point at which open source becomes more prevalent). However, regardless of what happens in future, it will be way easier to cope with if we've got AI in the CI rather than trying to push it into contributor tooling. Regards, James