From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60DBE262A6 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:40:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760640007; cv=none; b=OOHAUz6Fw4mkVoAcoqgGDUwkdwX0JJbO3oVjAvzBjs0hU4dljvvqFHaVieC5/mVdED/aYezwYy015gnQ15KWLPiUuITMFMtDVCAgu+DiXpZLMx9wtkvkt4GhR51T+gQv1nZgm0nrA0c9LRIBwVATDDdKEYfX9Igh2jg/ng/HRCo= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760640007; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Ws9yXt61O8PqaJeElqnhyY/WxKlU1prDAc/EO9/1KgQ=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=Ymf5e0qy8Kf0OZ8Xh1QdL9r2PBFBkrOKhnmGzZaJS2jIAkNsi2AnjSmYkquxTsb7rwifHFoS3vdQ1OFxabo7FnufRXRr3PMdZaVpqerkJtTXlRw9nd/uxo+MxgIWupjlr5IlkLNw1dwfrBcnpqaS2DUGvp4udYrMntSW6OdDUZw= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b=XZKYahq7; arc=none smtp.client-ip=90.155.50.34 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=casper.srs.infradead.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="XZKYahq7" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=Ws9yXt61O8PqaJeElqnhyY/WxKlU1prDAc/EO9/1KgQ=; b=XZKYahq73xozGAXq0r0HXDinNq 6XJCnxfG9rHLzx5pHYQx9Zk/ieHshAyy0XRaU9iCzHzQC9jcT2fs2aiQQP0QktjKX4hscMB+SK2XL P2fdSt7iPCCczB6ScvG52HEp3w4T0Sj3nu6VEJxgb9tndBveyImBYGC9z4tJusuIM6nJNWOcHof8N I83xVhnb0yCgnKRuQfGUBjljhTT85Ur4X7QEad2Roe6WoLSninx3KE34uvPj726uvKpzcfXVuJ1WH /Wwvwi2nhYycikx+Npr0itbqKK/qTOzRc3i39LF/YARaGE6Kvm61RZtle2jvVEW9NLl2w/dVhufRP ZfLPCiXQ==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:5:8821:c92:c597:1779] (helo=u09cd745991455d.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.98.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1v9StG-00000009m1t-27BU; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:39:55 +0000 Message-ID: <2bc9a808d001a48da9a5380faa84cfce16db082c.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: Replacing Link trailers From: David Woodhouse To: Steven Rostedt , Johannes Berg Cc: Mathieu Desnoyers , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 19:39:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> References: <6b188d9e-3d47-4a30-8452-3e57e09cf8e3@efficios.com> <8572506ccdaa6211e177d5976a74737268486492.camel@sipsolutions.net> <20251014153521.693907a1@gandalf.local.home> <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-unomDU6mUuMXY98TSsHA" User-Agent: Evolution 3.52.3-0ubuntu1 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-unomDU6mUuMXY98TSsHA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2025-10-15 at 18:22 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 00:01:38 +0200 > Johannes Berg wrote: >=20 > > So yeah, circling back to "benevolent" -- for me, this has definitely > > broken the "benevolent" part and a lot of trust. But that's fine, I can > > also do a job that heavily resolves around following a manager's > > arbitrary whims. But my heart won't be in it. >=20 > Yes it does appear that we all have extra work to do because one person > doesn't like the current method. I don't think I saw anyone else complain > about the "useless" link either. I agree. I think we're spending a lot of time trying to reinvent something that *was* working already. Even when a Link: header points to a lore.kernel.org link which is a plain one-off posting of the patch without any discussion, I *still* find those useful at times, because I can *see* that there was no such discussion. And if I've now found that patch to be the cause of a regression, I will reply to that message to *start* the discussion. --=-unomDU6mUuMXY98TSsHA Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCD9Aw ggSOMIIDdqADAgECAhAOmiw0ECVD4cWj5DqVrT9PMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGUxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20xJDAi BgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IEFzc3VyZWQgSUQgUm9vdCBDQTAeFw0yNDAxMzAwMDAwMDBaFw0zMTEx MDkyMzU5NTlaMEExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMRAwDgYDVQQKEwdWZXJva2V5MSAwHgYDVQQDExdWZXJv a2V5IFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBHMjCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMjvgLKj jfhCFqxYyRiW8g3cNFAvltDbK5AzcOaR7yVzVGadr4YcCVxjKrEJOgi7WEOH8rUgCNB5cTD8N/Et GfZI+LGqSv0YtNa54T9D1AWJy08ZKkWvfGGIXN9UFAPMJ6OLLH/UUEgFa+7KlrEvMUupDFGnnR06 aDJAwtycb8yXtILj+TvfhLFhafxroXrflspavejQkEiHjNjtHnwbZ+o43g0/yxjwnarGI3kgcak7 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