From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0013.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53C0B201004 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 22:22:39 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=216.40.44.13 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760566963; cv=none; b=IzF+4EZvZVK3ZDNBMz7N2lcV5+xR+81Q4u7s29emi7xLED0EyhL4W6j5+nCvg4gHfbWAg1ThtJQIjSRdcw4qh40G9kt9/Y5YcQsiGmvD5ajJlTCjqGkXXOsO9bJmEqSfTzcMhU9MabBGwSbpfKW59PNha85TS46Qy11RxfdMJlk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760566963; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Hg9v+O9N4TBaJ+6Wio5vmbU7e72HqXXD2QmITLzeMqA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qhaXTJT9q6nKWxFwEs09yf9dYdjSfmmaxcKZZVx+OxZhCi/8wQDu1wk56ygaug7aLuHyW3X85qvKJuJHpHkVNnCJpDKtQbDOrBwmggrZn80N6XBxTo3peWxQiEs5rewfLRQRk2Vc1gGM8/5pPqy/Z+ikNw3YUgfo562wl3mgG+4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=goodmis.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=goodmis.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=216.40.44.13 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=goodmis.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=goodmis.org Received: from omf07.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F4647396; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 22:22:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: rostedt@goodmis.org) by omf07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 432CD2002C; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 22:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 18:22:45 -0400 From: Steven Rostedt To: Johannes Berg Cc: Mathieu Desnoyers , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" Subject: Re: Replacing Link trailers Message-ID: <20251015182245.05c28887@gandalf.local.home> In-Reply-To: References: <6b188d9e-3d47-4a30-8452-3e57e09cf8e3@efficios.com> <8572506ccdaa6211e177d5976a74737268486492.camel@sipsolutions.net> <20251014153521.693907a1@gandalf.local.home> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.20.0git84 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 432CD2002C X-Stat-Signature: ju6kioqhd7zyn9896n9w9bq99pst63gz X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout02 X-Session-Marker: 726F737465647440676F6F646D69732E6F7267 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX18MSrMJA2ixZZEx5NRRTryJlPh+qxzpCTU= X-HE-Tag: 1760566957-915658 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX1+abz03xdjYXEw9NXioh/xGQIJTzsset4HMazs/7RC964oO1MJeN9V19T9kiykS3ZzsJfUtKjYuMpMLhgruK8gcH0F5WfLRhGEuVJrD95izYDOLTWyl/Y2I6ztuBO1olkLHLZuPSOsP9pxaC2so/DQ92fgWJdv3b/jZs3jjw0E9ZSDGoCOee91CZHGhQI7RPBN73SqQjACbb6mo4A7rpwpZr3rBu1/Qz2GW+w7LgiIcNJgXrUAXwlsJWNDBQzeiNz/SAHQLWqZEod2ce0BtAoGf2Kt0a8iq+7cdBk+jd+kAgx5SrdEgIJBwty4/ye5Xcd+u1DoNsmWrnnQyvDYjmDeS4HRg5l+RRLgSmgc7FIWPC0WY28fKPRd8 On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 00:01:38 +0200 Johannes Berg wrote: > So yeah, circling back to "benevolent" -- for me, this has definitely > broken the "benevolent" part and a lot of trust. But that's fine, I can > also do a job that heavily resolves around following a manager's > arbitrary whims. But my heart won't be in it. Yes it does appear that we all have extra work to do because one person doesn't like the current method. I don't think I saw anyone else complain about the "useless" link either. Maybe I missed it. But currently it's all been "Alright, fine, I'll work around this" and not one "Oh Great! This is most definitely helpful!", like what happened when Linus created "git". I'm currently looking for someone to help me with my maintainership. Masami came on board, but what happened was that he basically maintains all things "probe" related and I do everything else. That split still takes up more time than we have designated. Unfortunately, I've had many people say to me "I don't ever want to be a top level maintainer" and "better you than me", which makes it very difficult to find a helper. This discussion isn't helping with that perspective either. -- Steve