From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C64E2EDD76 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 20:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760389151; cv=none; b=NpIg+A/bQc34m9vbVGZ7PaZBA15sTwm+l7AJfDyCf5hhmDAdvCWNkcxaNVMz5G9ysKwKpwc2qpI6AgKsgibGP79LfYXfXsB9zELay+0S5x53uuNNZoVX06A2GAXpMBREb+hzGMmylSOWzKifMii3FTimfTMYM1EnccI5X2+ad8U= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1760389151; c=relaxed/simple; bh=WRb+Pql2nfjeMPH2ZpXpYce3tuslvMCYLkqQIm8dgew=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=iYJqYxm+5aFHdQlRs2lDcF+pxS9vpTQwgSqWEmQWjOfFGjmOXtLm5SpVraZzV3V0STX6Re/Z935cIFnBLtSLg8l7E4A5G8mhZgETDj5N7rhtMCcihc+QGEjMNwdRaj+VXS8+6cqX5XAoGsgyiVj23NLDx6+t5gE9brJdudz1Ojc= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b=E1wng5Ly; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b="E1wng5Ly" Received: from pendragon.ideasonboard.com (82-203-166-19.bb.dnainternet.fi [82.203.166.19]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with UTF8SMTPSA id 19E96169; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 22:57:26 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1760389046; bh=WRb+Pql2nfjeMPH2ZpXpYce3tuslvMCYLkqQIm8dgew=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=E1wng5LyoZZHE08Z2DO9foMDYwjYONkXrTSBrfU7XYGAZ9hT2jydt2oKHEdr3uLHA TSL/ZFWcOM9CSZimOS+GlyUVJYMbKecNnALALWl1Zz8CmohbroX9p0hA3FcNrEmJkl D/nqagBv76HO8YqMjo65cdVuNpAc/OH0t1AWz87o= Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 23:58:57 +0300 From: Laurent Pinchart To: Doug Anderson Cc: Linus Torvalds , "H. Peter Anvin" , Theodore Ts'o , Steven Rostedt , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" Subject: Re: Replacing Link trailers Message-ID: <20251013205857.GA28892@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> References: <20251013133913.015f253b@gandalf.local.home> <20251013175031.GJ354523@mit.edu> <7EE2713D-7612-4EAC-9E4E-225A92FEC9D3@zytor.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 01:34:05PM -0700, Doug Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 12:20 PM Linus Torvalds wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 12:07, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > > > > > > This was the *original* definition that I proposed, which was vetoed by Linus because it didn't provide a clickable experience. > > > > Yeah., I still don't believe that Message-ID is any better than a link. > > > > And the only believable argument *for* this all is the "one-click experience". > > > > Because I still believe that "if you use tools, then 'b4 dig' is > > better than *any* pointless tag that just is entirely redundant and > > only cuts down on the available information". > > > > So the one-click argument actually resonates with me, even if that is > > very obviously not the workflow I use. At least I *understand* that > > argument. > > > > All the other arguments seem just disingenuous in that they literally > > give less useful information than "b4 dig" does. > > Wow, I hadn't heard of "b4 dig" and it doesn't appear to have landed > yet. ...but I searched and it was easy to find a reference. I'll check > it out. Oh, it's using AI. I guess my suggestion that we should use AI > to solve this problem was more on point than I realized. ;-) ;-) ;-) > > OK, I found Sasha's RFC [1]. I think the one discussed in this mail thread is the implementation from Konstantin, available from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/utils/b4/b4.git/. > The first thing I note is that "b4 dig" takes a Message-Id as an > argument. So now I'm confused. I must be misunderstanding the problem > we're trying to solve with the "Link:" tag?! > > From how I've used it, the "Link" tag allows you to start with a > commit hash in Linux and then go from there to a mailing list post > (and/or Message-Id). ...and then it was suggested that we don't need a > "Link" tag (or anything containing "Message-Id") because "b4 dig" > solves the problem. ...but then "b4 dig" needs a Message-Id to work? > Eh? > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/20250909163214.3241191-1-sashal@kernel.org/ -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart