From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 218C68831 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:01:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0366AC433C7; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:01:50 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 17:02:24 -0400 From: Steven Rostedt To: "Theodore Ts'o" Cc: Shuah , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [Tech-board-discuss] [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group Message-ID: <20230919170224.17968063@gandalf.local.home> In-Reply-To: References: <20230919121001.7bc610d4@gandalf.local.home> <371cb5d1-9997-a03b-4848-550ac8658021@kernel.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.19.1 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:39:11 -0400 "Theodore Ts'o" wrote: > On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 10:52:40AM -0600, Shuah wrote: > > As a member of the CoC, I respectfully disagree with the statement "but all the > > focus has mainly been around telling maintainers how to behave." This impression > > might have been the result of one unfortunate incident that took place last year. > > is only part of what CoC has been doing. > > > > A majority of reports are related to incorrect understanding of how the community > > works and discusses technical issues. Most of them get resolved without involving > > the community. This is behind the scenes silent work CoC does. > > > > It is unfortunate that CoC is being viewed as a body that is focused on telling > > maintainers how to behave. I would encourage to not view CoC work based on one > > or two cases that were outliers. CoC worked very hard to resolve them fairly and > > that benefited the community as a whole. > > Shuah, I don't think this is the fault of the CoC. Much of it is in > how people interpret the CoC, or think it should be adapted. And one huge distinction between the CoC and the support group is that the support group will have absolutely zero authority to lay out any consequences to all of the parties involved. Where as the CoC can if it deems fit, escalate the ramifications if things do not move it a way it feels necessary. It's like having a family member that is abusing drugs. You go to a support group to get help. You do not go to law enforcement, as that could escalate to unintended consequences to the individual you want to help. That alone will keep people from contacting CoC in some situations where a support group could indeed help. Look at Bart's reply to my email. He was concerned about leaving a trail in some mailing list. That's the type of situation I want to address. -- Steve