From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp-out1.suse.de (smtp-out1.suse.de [195.135.220.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10BD1944B for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:20:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-521) server-digest SHA512) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-out1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 437FE22C24; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:20:03 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.cz; s=susede2_rsa; t=1692699603; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=loFyIhFIz0QIbFgPHNWbQyeIdn+jnVIPnc+wnAzYPS8=; b=Jx4WYIfAgEkn+QdQw9xbbbZfLX88jkwu+l6l4lW03YnnRfdxizjsntoHAyS7Bi0e+Uf3cL OwKqz/c4dBY+X+jGXpXxIZdHVahanIGWki5p30hSJtKJbGplRPnpK7VkIFviyhkUf6UClk VzOXL8vTvq78c5SPbSqaNOQq2l+3bEk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.cz; s=susede2_ed25519; t=1692699603; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=loFyIhFIz0QIbFgPHNWbQyeIdn+jnVIPnc+wnAzYPS8=; b=VDX0VCeVuMGaBPNZcixeeIj5BP5r5MhDewbIpyYxGRhG3UTrk2U1H+OeMA3+/Bosxsftmh iscWXwF3OlPl3iAA== Received: from imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-521) server-digest SHA512) (No client certificate requested) by imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 314E613919; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dovecot-director2.suse.de ([192.168.254.65]) by imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de with ESMTPSA id EfD5C9OL5GQ2IQAAMHmgww (envelope-from ); Tue, 22 Aug 2023 10:20:03 +0000 Received: by quack3.suse.cz (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AFD3EA0774; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 12:20:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2023 12:20:02 +0200 From: Jan Kara To: Christian Brauner Cc: Jan Kara , Vegard Nossum , Leon Romanovsky , Linus Torvalds , Jakub Kicinski , Linus Walleij , Alexei Starovoitov , Andrew Lunn , Laurent Pinchart , Luis Chamberlain , Josef Bacik , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Jeff Layton , Song Liu Subject: Re: [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainer burnout Message-ID: <20230822102002.ogandzgm76hm6dnq@quack3> References: <44814ed5-7bab-4e56-9ca6-189870f97f41@lunn.ch> <20230817081957.1287b966@kernel.org> <20230818080949.7b17b0d5@kernel.org> <20230819064537.GM22185@unreal> <20230822094613.bxtsjlnkhaypoflj@quack3> <20230822-komitee-erreichbar-4dff01dec543@brauner> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20230822-komitee-erreichbar-4dff01dec543@brauner> On Tue 22-08-23 12:10:26, Christian Brauner wrote: > > I agree it is good to create positive incentives to provide good review. > > But I believe what really makes people do good reviews is the sense of > > common responsibility - you don't want buggy or misdesigned stuff to get > > into the subsystem you work with because that's going to make life harder > > for everybody including you in the future. And I understand the "tragedy of > > Yes, this is a Herculean task and often just results in complaints that > this is unnecessary non-technical pushback. > > > commons" (IOW selfishness) works against this so incentives or > > review-trading or other methods can help but ultimately it is IMHO about > > making people understand and accept this shared responsibility... > > Yes, but in order to encourage and incentivize shared responsibility the > environment must feel sufficiently safe and have a good model of shared > ownership. I think we often still have deficits in both (with > differences between subsystems). We are in full agreement here :). Honza -- Jan Kara SUSE Labs, CR