On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 08:13:17AM -0700, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-10-16 at 10:11 +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote:

> >  And I don't see anyone else from an external community with real
> > experience (or someone who does consulting in this area) invited to
> > fill that gap either.

> I don't buy the narrative that you must be a CoC consultant or
> implementor to make a difference.  The kernel communities have been
> getting better for a while and several people on the invitee list have
> had a lot to do with that.  For me, one of the most gratifying things

On the one hand I would completely agree that it's entirely possible to
do a good job of implementing a code of conduct without the involvement
of people who are recognized experts in the field.  On the other hand
codes of conduct are inevitably partly a marketing and confidence
effort, we could write the most excellent code of conduct possible on
paper but if we can't convince people that we're serious then it's not
going to accomplish a huge amount.  This is unfortunately particularly
an issue for the kernel where we have what one might term reputational
challenges to overcome.  Having people involved who are widely regarded
as experts should help quite a bit with that, at the very least helping
us explain what we're doing in a way that makes sense to people.

One of the things we could end up doing at the meeting is deferring some
of the decision for mailing list or other discussion which would give a
space for that to happen.