From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3719574 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:21:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.9]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E241E8 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:21:03 -0700 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Stephen Hemminger Message-ID: <20150812182103.GA20106@infradead.org> References: <20150812111552.0f7e5fe7@urahara> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150812111552.0f7e5fe7@urahara> Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [TOPIC] userspace infrastructure services List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 11:15:52AM -0700, Stephen Hemminger wrote: > I expected someone else to bring this topic up... > > One thing that is happening is that there is lots of activity in moving core features > of the kernel into userspace (networking, storage, security). I don't want to get into > an argument over whether that is good or bad; Which I think is the most important question of them all. From all the pain caused and the little gains I'm a believer it's mostly bad, especially for cases like: > The area I am most familiar with is the DPDK which has to have its own UIO drivers > to work in all environments (get device into userspace). And then has to have its > own drivers to simulate network device (put device back into kernel). This leads > to unmanageable ABI and development technical debt. Which interacts on both sides. In that case "let them suffer for their stupidity" is the only valid answer. For a case where it's more reasonable there might be a different answer.