From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7936FACC for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:37:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mezzanine.sirena.org.uk (mezzanine.sirena.org.uk [106.187.55.193]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D59C614E for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:37:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:36:59 +0100 From: Mark Brown To: James Bottomley Message-ID: <20150716183659.GW11162@sirena.org.uk> References: <20150710222351.GA28632@kroah.com> <20150711000034.GU111846@vmdeb7> <20150711001348.GA30675@kroah.com> <20150711055441.GA6316@sudip-PC> <20150715212043.775be5d2@gandalf.local.home> <20150716132551.GH4039@sirena.org.uk> <20150716094720.2bf9f5ac@gandalf.local.home> <55A7C7FE.6000604@sonymobile.com> <20150716094125.16cdda73@lwn.net> <1437063875.18768.59.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IyX+qZsYMJ8Y4LOh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1437063875.18768.59.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Cc: Jason Cooper , Dan Carpenter , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] Recruitment (Reviewers, Testers, Maintainers, Hobbyists) List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --IyX+qZsYMJ8Y4LOh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 07:24:35PM +0300, James Bottomley wrote: > Seriously, what is the actual problem? Who bites the heads off newbies > for sport? I ask because the first patch submission is usually treated > with helpfulness and tolerance, at least where I've been on the cc list. > The wrong phase of the merge cycle can be a bugger, particularly when > most people's attention is elsewhere, but it's not like it's a huge > deterrent. We all have developers who'd rather spit rats than submit a > patch to $opensourceprojecttheyfoundabugin but then, it's sometimes > because the reply might contradict their own mythology (or question > their reputation). Before we embark on a huge does of hair shirt and a > lavish process dump, what is the problem we're trying to solve? I think a lot of it is about perception - the whole "Linus will scream at you for minor issues" meme is pretty strong out there and shapes perceptions regardless of how true it is. That said I do think there's a couple of things that are real. The response time issues being discussed elsewhere in the thread are real I think - they are the biggest problem I see when I'm helping people with patch submissions. People get very discouraged when they send something off and either get no response at all or find it takes a while, they have difficulty in figuring out how to get people to pay attention. This is unfortunately quite common. It's a really difficult problem to solve with our workflows, at some point submitters have sent a mail to the right people in close enough to the right format so the maintainers *should* look at it but still the submitters don't hear anything back and next steps aren't terribly clear. I know there's also some stuff that's down to brief replies rather than active hostility - I'm definitely part of the problem here, I need to write a bunch of longer form replies and get a workflow for pasting them into email (actually I think I've got that bit) sorted out. Type the same reply a lot and it's easy to optimise it down to brevity. --IyX+qZsYMJ8Y4LOh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVp/nKAAoJECTWi3JdVIfQZfAH/1G9coEvXXdaJycn1rXLNmwB 0PDpbd0KnZec3GBqwupAZGKH229vppj9MjttWtW5IG9/6xrbYMUvoNmMbkjslvNU U9Hs9RLaxD3E7fTfpggL5XCqqJ7ZpsQa9Ja3LRLux30G4S4vuKdFe/9rubK1NjeW G4NOKwgFwVyaGtM4leL/BU9DadMrhiVULqI6peOnW0DJwsSTFtA8jH8uB1u6FG69 CoV2SXp2VgYysnw05bqnTUwDPcTV7fmS1cWxSoFXQuep0qwbVGF7hchg/vJFSZww GDo1XnCxmZkma6xpl+xXBOZPLU8sULcw6Zt3cwFO5FX7lMtWo/+TEYNQngq71IY= =Yk0l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IyX+qZsYMJ8Y4LOh--