From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7607FB68 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 15:18:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pmta2.delivery5.ore.mailhop.org (pmta2.delivery5.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.218.12]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB6AA10A for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 15:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 15:02:20 +0000 From: Jason Cooper To: Peter =?utf-8?B?SMO8d2U=?= Message-ID: <20150708150220.GJ23515@io.lakedaemon.net> References: <201507080121.41463.PeterHuewe@gmx.de> <201507080905.00051.PeterHuewe@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <201507080905.00051.PeterHuewe@gmx.de> Cc: Josh Boyer , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] Recruitment (Reviewers, Testers, Maintainers, Hobbyists) List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 09:04:58AM +0200, Peter Hüwe wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 8. Juli 2015, 04:03:04 schrieb Krzysztof Kozłowski: > > > > Before doing some work there is always a cause, an answer to "why I am > > doing this"? Employer may pay for my commits but would he pay for > > reviewing time? That is his decision and it would be difficult to > > change policies inside companies. > > > > Other reason for doing open source work may be the fame. Being > > recognizable, getting better job offers, doing tasks which are > > sensible and meaningful for someone. Currently probably most of the > > fame goes to authors and maintainers. For example in the form of `git > > log --author/committer=` or LWN articles about statistics. > > > > How to get more reviews from such people (when employer does not pay > > for it)? Give them fame! :) > > Exactly! > This is also what Rafael wrote in the other mail: > > > Most of the time there's a little to no recognition for doing that work > > and, quite frankly, writing code is more rewarding than that for the > > majority of people anyway. > > > So changing our fame-statistics from commits to reviews and tested by might > change the situation a bit. > -> The next LWN stats and coverage should probably focus on the reviewed-by / > tested-by stats. > People love to be on some "top 10" lists - and also they can show something > like that to their bosses. gack. see below. > "I've been a kernel reviewer and tester" -- meh, who cares Show me a concrete example where that has been expressed. I've had the exact opposite experience. Typically I've had to tone down the expectations of others. > "I've been a top 100 kernel reviewer and tester over the last X releases" -- > give him a raise/the job (esp. if kernel is not the core competency of the > company :) Gah! Please don't add gamification into this. It attracts the wrong sorts of people. We already have a large swath of society that want a cookie and a pat on the head for doing the most mundane things. Plus these systems built with good intentions always go awry. "Hey! You didn't add a tag for me because I spotted a typo!" Or, "My boss / HR gave me less of a raise because my stats dropped this quarter, wtf?" This is a path we do *not* want to walk down. > --> Maybe LF can organize something? > "Here is a small token of appreciation (t-shirt, cup) for spending countless > hours on reviewing and testing stuff in the Linux kernel -- keep up the good > work" How about "Here's an invite to the KS, because we value your opinion and would like you to take part in the process." ;-) > > The only way to address this problem I can see is to recognize reviewers > > *much* more than we tend to do and not just "encourage" them, because > > that's way insufficient. > Yes again! Disagree. But I've said my piece above. > What I definitely would also recommend is to organize some 'get togethers', > like a miniconf/minisummit at the next conference near you -- and where you > grab a beer _together_ with the reviewers / testers afterwards (and maybe the > maintainer can pay). Enhancing the community effect is something I can get on board with. Buying a few rounds of drinks goes a long way. Getting the folks together in meat-space is the hard ($$) part. thx, Jason.