ksummit.lists.linux.dev archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
	<ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [TOPIC] Encouraging more reviewers
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 12:40:05 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140530164005.GX25041@thunk.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1401427998.2163.37.camel@dabdike>

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 09:33:18AM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> We need to design programs for new people that draw them in, not keep
> them on the periphery.  That's why I think bug fixing is a better
> activity: it means they have to understand some of the code; the change
> can be small and isolated, so they don't have to understand all the code
> and it often encourages people to find out more about whatever they're
> fixing, hence draws them in.

When I need to bring a Noogler (or intern) up to speed, and they are
new to kernel coding or new to the storage subsystem, the two
activities that seem to work the best is (a) bug fixing, and (b)
participating in a rebase to forward port patches to a newer upstream
kernel.

Obviously, the latter isn't applicable for upstream development (but
probably has at least some relevance for companies maintaining
community or enterprise distros).  Also note that one key enabling
technology to let relatively experienced developers do rebases is that
every single commit that they need to rebase is annotated with either
the name of the automated test or test suite, or manual testing
instructions.

We don't even *bother* having Nooglers or interns work on whitespace
or spelling fix ups, even as a "my first patch" so they can learn how
to use Gerrit and other internal tools.  They can learn all of that
while doing work that actually adds real value, such as working on a
backlogged bug report or by forward porting patches.

Cheers,

					- Ted

> We're way off the topic of encouraging reviewers, but the bottom line
> for me is I don't believe starting people out with cleanup type changes
> is a good way to get wider engagement.  It is a good way to increase the
> number of overall patches, all of which need to be reviewed, hence the
> need for more reviewers.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-05-30 16:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-05-24  9:53 James Bottomley
2014-05-24 11:19 ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-24 19:18   ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-25  4:56     ` NeilBrown
2014-05-25  4:57     ` James Bottomley
2014-05-26 15:41       ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-30 16:05         ` mark gross
2014-05-30 16:45           ` Guenter Roeck
2014-06-01 14:05           ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-25  8:59     ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-26 12:23       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-26 12:52         ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-27 17:27   ` Lukáš Czerner
2014-05-27 22:57     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-27 22:43       ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-05-27 23:09         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-28 14:26       ` Daniel Vetter
2014-05-28 14:32         ` Dan Carpenter
2014-05-28 14:39           ` Daniel Vetter
2014-05-28 16:39             ` Mark Brown
2014-05-28 16:51               ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-28 17:35                 ` Mark Brown
2014-05-28 17:44                   ` Luck, Tony
2014-05-28 18:38                     ` Mark Brown
2014-05-28 21:32                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2014-05-29  9:28                         ` Li Zefan
2014-05-29 17:41                           ` Greg KH
2014-05-30  2:41                             ` Li Zefan
2014-05-30 17:28                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2014-05-30 23:40                               ` Greg KH
2014-05-31 16:49                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2014-06-01  8:36                                   ` Takashi Iwai
2014-05-31 23:30                               ` Randy Dunlap
2014-05-29 18:43                         ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 22:48               ` Daniel Vetter
2014-05-28 23:17                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2014-05-29 18:45                   ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  7:35             ` Dan Carpenter
2014-05-28 16:05         ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-28 16:37           ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-28 16:50             ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-28 16:20         ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-28 16:28           ` Josh Triplett
2014-05-28 17:05             ` Jonathan Corbet
2014-05-28 21:59             ` Thomas Gleixner
2014-05-28 23:31               ` josh
2014-05-28 23:55                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2014-05-29  0:39                 ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-29  0:47                   ` Randy Dunlap
2014-05-29  0:52                     ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-29  6:13                 ` James Bottomley
2014-05-29 18:58                   ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29 23:34                   ` Greg KH
2014-05-30  2:23                     ` Li Zefan
2014-05-30  4:26                     ` James Bottomley
2014-05-30  5:02                       ` Greg KH
2014-05-30  5:33                         ` James Bottomley
2014-05-30 14:14                           ` John W. Linville
2014-05-30 16:40                           ` Theodore Ts'o [this message]
2014-05-30 16:43                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-05-30 16:56                           ` [Ksummit-discuss] More productive uses of enthusiastic new kernel developers (was: Re: [TOPIC] Encouraging more reviewers) Theodore Ts'o
2014-05-30 19:54                             ` Shuah Khan
2014-06-02 12:00                               ` Jason Cooper
2014-05-30 20:50                             ` David Woodhouse
2014-05-31  1:44                             ` [Ksummit-discuss] More productive uses of enthusiastic new kernel developers Li Zefan
2014-05-31  1:54                               ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-31  2:21                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-05-31 22:53                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-31  2:07                               ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-05-31  3:52                                 ` Greg KH
2014-05-31  4:08                                   ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-30 23:47                           ` [Ksummit-discuss] [TOPIC] Encouraging more reviewers Greg KH
2014-05-30 11:17                       ` Dan Carpenter
2014-05-31 21:05                         ` Dan Carpenter
2014-05-29 10:31                 ` Daniel Vetter
2014-05-29 18:36                   ` Greg KH
2014-05-29 15:32                 ` Luck, Tony
2014-05-28  5:37     ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-28 10:06       ` Lukáš Czerner
2014-05-28 13:57         ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-24 14:24 ` Dan Williams
2014-05-26 12:31   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-24 15:50 ` Trond Myklebust
2014-05-24 17:31   ` James Bottomley
2014-05-25  4:15     ` Bjorn Helgaas
2014-05-26 12:38       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-27 18:21     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-25  4:17 ` Stephen Rothwell
2014-05-25  8:53   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2014-05-25  9:11     ` Stephen Rothwell
2014-05-27  8:16     ` Li Zefan
2014-05-25  9:09   ` Wolfram Sang
2014-05-25 22:29 ` Dan Carpenter
2014-05-26 15:53   ` James Bottomley
2014-05-27 14:39     ` Jiri Kosina
2014-05-27 20:53       ` James Bottomley
2014-05-27 21:22         ` Jiri Kosina
2014-05-28  0:10           ` Martin K. Petersen
2014-05-28  0:30             ` Greg KH
2014-05-28 23:25             ` Dan Williams
2014-05-28 23:32               ` Jiri Kosina
2014-05-28 23:47                 ` Dan Williams
2014-05-29  4:01               ` Martin K. Petersen
2014-05-29  5:17                 ` Dan Williams
2014-05-29 23:56                   ` Martin K. Petersen
2014-05-29 23:59                     ` Dan Williams
2014-05-28 23:33             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-29  0:35             ` Ben Hutchings
2014-05-29  4:36               ` Martin K. Petersen
2014-05-29 16:46               ` Mark Brown
2014-05-29 21:57                 ` Frank Rowand
2014-05-29 23:12                   ` Mark Brown
2014-05-28  1:10           ` NeilBrown
2014-05-28  5:11           ` James Bottomley
2014-05-26 12:17 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-28 18:47 ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-28 20:15   ` josh
2014-05-29  2:15   ` Rob Herring
2014-05-29  3:34     ` Olof Johansson
2014-05-30  0:52       ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-29  8:39     ` Jonathan Cameron
2014-05-30  0:47     ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-30  0:51     ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-28 18:48 ` [Ksummit-discuss] Reforming Acked-by (was Re: [TOPIC] Encouraging more reviewers) Paul Walmsley
2014-05-28 19:11   ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-28 19:15     ` John W. Linville
2014-05-28 19:51       ` Mimi Zohar
2014-05-30 14:59       ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-30 15:10         ` John W. Linville
2014-05-30 21:10           ` James Bottomley
2014-05-30 21:30             ` Steven Rostedt
2014-06-02  2:43             ` Randy Dunlap
2014-06-02  2:53               ` NeilBrown
2014-06-02  3:01                 ` Randy Dunlap
2014-05-28 19:49   ` Guenter Roeck
2014-05-28 20:12   ` josh
2014-05-28 20:22     ` Dmitry Torokhov
2014-05-28 23:02       ` Laurent Pinchart
2014-05-28 23:18         ` Dmitry Torokhov
2014-05-28 23:29           ` Laurent Pinchart
2014-05-29 14:44             ` Christoph Lameter
2014-05-29 14:59               ` Laurent Pinchart
2014-05-29 16:33                 ` Christoph Lameter
2014-05-30 10:58                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2014-05-29 15:58   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-29 18:27   ` Theodore Ts'o
2014-05-29 21:03     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-29 21:03       ` Olof Johansson
2014-05-29 23:30         ` Greg KH
2014-05-30  1:12           ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-30  5:04             ` Greg KH
2014-05-30  5:39               ` James Bottomley
2014-05-30 11:30                 ` Daniel Vetter
2014-05-30 23:39                 ` Greg KH
2014-05-30 10:08           ` Lukáš Czerner
2014-05-30 13:07             ` Jan Kara
2014-05-30 13:41               ` Lukáš Czerner
2014-05-30 15:22               ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-31  1:30                 ` Li Zefan
2014-05-30 14:34           ` John W. Linville
2014-05-30  0:55         ` Paul Walmsley
2014-05-30 15:17         ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-30 15:06       ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-30 21:26         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2014-05-30 21:29           ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-30 22:16             ` Rafael J. Wysocki

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20140530164005.GX25041@thunk.org \
    --to=tytso@mit.edu \
    --cc=James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com \
    --cc=ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox