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Peter Anvin" , Theodore Ts'o , Steven Rostedt , James Bottomley , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" References: <20251013133913.015f253b@gandalf.local.home> <20251013175031.GJ354523@mit.edu> <7EE2713D-7612-4EAC-9E4E-225A92FEC9D3@zytor.com> From: Vlastimil Babka Autocrypt: addr=vbabka@suse.cz; keydata= xsFNBFZdmxYBEADsw/SiUSjB0dM+vSh95UkgcHjzEVBlby/Fg+g42O7LAEkCYXi/vvq31JTB KxRWDHX0R2tgpFDXHnzZcQywawu8eSq0LxzxFNYMvtB7sV1pxYwej2qx9B75qW2plBs+7+YB 87tMFA+u+L4Z5xAzIimfLD5EKC56kJ1CsXlM8S/LHcmdD9Ctkn3trYDNnat0eoAcfPIP2OZ+ 9oe9IF/R28zmh0ifLXyJQQz5ofdj4bPf8ecEW0rhcqHfTD8k4yK0xxt3xW+6Exqp9n9bydiy tcSAw/TahjW6yrA+6JhSBv1v2tIm+itQc073zjSX8OFL51qQVzRFr7H2UQG33lw2QrvHRXqD Ot7ViKam7v0Ho9wEWiQOOZlHItOOXFphWb2yq3nzrKe45oWoSgkxKb97MVsQ+q2SYjJRBBH4 8qKhphADYxkIP6yut/eaj9ImvRUZZRi0DTc8xfnvHGTjKbJzC2xpFcY0DQbZzuwsIZ8OPJCc LM4S7mT25NE5kUTG/TKQCk922vRdGVMoLA7dIQrgXnRXtyT61sg8PG4wcfOnuWf8577aXP1x 6mzw3/jh3F+oSBHb/GcLC7mvWreJifUL2gEdssGfXhGWBo6zLS3qhgtwjay0Jl+kza1lo+Cv BB2T79D4WGdDuVa4eOrQ02TxqGN7G0Biz5ZLRSFzQSQwLn8fbwARAQABzSBWbGFzdGltaWwg QmFia2EgPHZiYWJrYUBzdXNlLmN6PsLBlAQTAQoAPgIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIe AQIXgBYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJnyBr8BQka0IFQAAoJECJPp+fMgqZkqmMQ AIbGN95ptUMUvo6aAdhxaOCHXp1DfIBuIOK/zpx8ylY4pOwu3GRe4dQ8u4XS9gaZ96Gj4bC+ jwWcSmn+TjtKW3rH1dRKopvC07tSJIGGVyw7ieV/5cbFffA8NL0ILowzVg8w1ipnz1VTkWDr 2zcfslxJsJ6vhXw5/npcY0ldeC1E8f6UUoa4eyoskd70vO0wOAoGd02ZkJoox3F5ODM0kjHu Y97VLOa3GG66lh+ZEelVZEujHfKceCw9G3PMvEzyLFbXvSOigZQMdKzQ8D/OChwqig8wFBmV QCPS4yDdmZP3oeDHRjJ9jvMUKoYODiNKsl2F+xXwyRM2qoKRqFlhCn4usVd1+wmv9iLV8nPs 2Db1ZIa49fJet3Sk3PN4bV1rAPuWvtbuTBN39Q/6MgkLTYHb84HyFKw14Rqe5YorrBLbF3rl M51Dpf6Egu1yTJDHCTEwePWug4XI11FT8lK0LNnHNpbhTCYRjX73iWOnFraJNcURld1jL1nV r/LRD+/e2gNtSTPK0Qkon6HcOBZnxRoqtazTU6YQRmGlT0v+rukj/cn5sToYibWLn+RoV1CE Qj6tApOiHBkpEsCzHGu+iDQ1WT0Idtdynst738f/uCeCMkdRu4WMZjteQaqvARFwCy3P/jpK uvzMtves5HvZw33ZwOtMCgbpce00DaET4y/UzsBNBFsZNTUBCACfQfpSsWJZyi+SHoRdVyX5 J6rI7okc4+b571a7RXD5UhS9dlVRVVAtrU9ANSLqPTQKGVxHrqD39XSw8hxK61pw8p90pg4G /N3iuWEvyt+t0SxDDkClnGsDyRhlUyEWYFEoBrrCizbmahOUwqkJbNMfzj5Y7n7OIJOxNRkB IBOjPdF26dMP69BwePQao1M8Acrrex9sAHYjQGyVmReRjVEtv9iG4DoTsnIR3amKVk6si4Ea X/mrapJqSCcBUVYUFH8M7bsm4CSxier5ofy8jTEa/CfvkqpKThTMCQPNZKY7hke5qEq1CBk2 wxhX48ZrJEFf1v3NuV3OimgsF2odzieNABEBAAHCwXwEGAEKACYCGwwWIQSpQNQ0mSwujpkQ PVAiT6fnzIKmZAUCZ8gcVAUJFhTonwAKCRAiT6fnzIKmZLY8D/9uo3Ut9yi2YCuASWxr7QQZ lJCViArjymbxYB5NdOeC50/0gnhK4pgdHlE2MdwF6o34x7TPFGpjNFvycZqccSQPJ/gibwNA zx3q9vJT4Vw+YbiyS53iSBLXMweeVV1Jd9IjAoL+EqB0cbxoFXvnjkvP1foiiF5r73jCd4PR rD+GoX5BZ7AZmFYmuJYBm28STM2NA6LhT0X+2su16f/HtummENKcMwom0hNu3MBNPUOrujtW khQrWcJNAAsy4yMoJ2Lw51T/5X5Hc7jQ9da9fyqu+phqlVtn70qpPvgWy4HRhr25fCAEXZDp xG4RNmTm+pqorHOqhBkI7wA7P/nyPo7ZEc3L+ZkQ37u0nlOyrjbNUniPGxPxv1imVq8IyycG AN5FaFxtiELK22gvudghLJaDiRBhn8/AhXc642/Z/yIpizE2xG4KU4AXzb6C+o7LX/WmmsWP Ly6jamSg6tvrdo4/e87lUedEqCtrp2o1xpn5zongf6cQkaLZKQcBQnPmgHO5OG8+50u88D9I rywqgzTUhHFKKF6/9L/lYtrNcHU8Z6Y4Ju/MLUiNYkmtrGIMnkjKCiRqlRrZE/v5YFHbayRD dJKXobXTtCBYpLJM4ZYRpGZXne/FAtWNe4KbNJJqxMvrTOrnIatPj8NhBVI0RSJRsbilh6TE m6M14QORSWTLRg== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49E0722074 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd2.dmz-prg2.suse.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.51 / 50.00]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[suse.cz:s=susede2_rsa,suse.cz:s=susede2_ed25519]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[zytor.com:email,imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org:helo,imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org:rdns,suse.cz:mid,suse.cz:dkim,linux-foundation.org:email]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[suse.cz:s=susede2_rsa,suse.cz:s=susede2_ed25519]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_SPAMHAUS_BLOCKED_OPENRESOLVER(0.00)[2a07:de40:b281:104:10:150:64:97:from]; FUZZY_RATELIMITED(0.00)[rspamd.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_XBL(0.00)[2a07:de40:b281:104:10:150:64:97:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_BLOCKED_OPENRESOLVER(0.00)[2a07:de40:b281:106:10:150:64:167:received]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[suse.cz:+]; DBL_BLOCKED_OPENRESOLVER(0.00)[imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org:helo,imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org:rdns,zytor.com:email,suse.cz:mid,suse.cz:dkim] X-Rspamd-Action: no action X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.51 X-Spam-Level: On 10/13/25 22:34, Doug Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 12:20 PM Linus Torvalds > wrote: >> >> On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 12:07, H. Peter Anvin wrote: >> > >> > This was the *original* definition that I proposed, which was vetoed by Linus because it didn't provide a clickable experience. >> >> Yeah., I still don't believe that Message-ID is any better than a link. >> >> And the only believable argument *for* this all is the "one-click experience". >> >> Because I still believe that "if you use tools, then 'b4 dig' is >> better than *any* pointless tag that just is entirely redundant and >> only cuts down on the available information". >> >> So the one-click argument actually resonates with me, even if that is >> very obviously not the workflow I use. At least I *understand* that >> argument. >> >> All the other arguments seem just disingenuous in that they literally >> give less useful information than "b4 dig" does. > > Wow, I hadn't heard of "b4 dig" and it doesn't appear to have landed > yet. ...but I searched and it was easy to find a reference. I'll check > it out. Oh, it's using AI. I guess my suggestion that we should use AI > to solve this problem was more on point than I realized. ;-) ;-) ;-) > > OK, I found Sasha's RFC [1]. You found the wrong one. See this one: https://lore.kernel.org/all/20251010-muscular-camel-of-acumen-00eeaf@lemur/ But if your point was to demonstrate how searching for a subject can lead to the wrong outcome, good job :) > The first thing I note is that "b4 dig" takes a Message-Id as an > argument. So now I'm confused. I must be misunderstanding the problem > we're trying to solve with the "Link:" tag?! > > From how I've used it, the "Link" tag allows you to start with a > commit hash in Linux and then go from there to a mailing list post > (and/or Message-Id). ...and then it was suggested that we don't need a > "Link" tag (or anything containing "Message-Id") because "b4 dig" > solves the problem. ...but then "b4 dig" needs a Message-Id to work? > Eh? > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/20250909163214.3241191-1-sashal@kernel.org/ > > -Doug >