From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp-out2.suse.de (smtp-out2.suse.de [195.135.220.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1FDE328D7; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:23:36 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=suse.de Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=suse.de Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=suse.de header.i=@suse.de header.b="mji2T3q7"; dkim=permerror (0-bit key) header.d=suse.de header.i=@suse.de header.b="a6CuNMue" Received: from imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-521) server-digest SHA512) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-out2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D75B42011E; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:14:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_rsa; t=1698268471; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DvLSIEyFugabfeMNCq5Clh9avW5u2HN5Oqybq4n6v9c=; b=mji2T3q72mWB9YI7CeeOyzHGmXXFifklx2QFDx/ZS3F0wW0trvKKjtfuKNMOPvcsJ9zDjD P3rzBUppNOovwU/1Tt6xmqwsX64jXVW9XcKAHaRDJVnJfZNQchLPtbmqaeWxyligqSRqHF 5IO6duguD3p5oZV/UZcU4mj+eZehXM0= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_ed25519; t=1698268471; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DvLSIEyFugabfeMNCq5Clh9avW5u2HN5Oqybq4n6v9c=; b=a6CuNMuelj9qz4JEecvrt2nR3TITI/FjdCWlSdnNbioFUotsjHq7pidv9j+T0bStJVUQz0 E/Gavu8DBaSp9iBw== Received: from imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-521) server-digest SHA512) (No client certificate requested) by imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82090138E9; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:14:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dovecot-director2.suse.de ([192.168.254.65]) by imap2.suse-dmz.suse.de with ESMTPSA id EmSIDjWFOWWRLwAAMHmgww (envelope-from ); Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:14:29 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "NeilBrown" To: "Geert Uytterhoeven" Cc: "Krzysztof Kozlowski" , "Andrew Morton" , "Dan Carpenter" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, outreachy@lists.linux.dev, kernel-janitors@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: KTODO automated TODO lists In-reply-to: References: <369bc919-1a1d-4f37-9cc9-742a86a41282@kadam.mountain>, <20231023114949.34fc967988c354547f79c4e7@linux-foundation.org>, <8ca50d4c-3c96-4efa-a111-fca04d580ab5@kernel.org>, <169818295461.20306.14022136719064683486@noble.neil.brown.name>, Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:14:25 +1100 Message-id: <169826846576.20306.981035382886610843@noble.neil.brown.name> Authentication-Results: smtp-out2.suse.de; none X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -11.10 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-11.10 / 50.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-3.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[suse.de:s=susede2_rsa,suse.de:s=susede2_ed25519]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%] X-Spam-Flag: NO On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > Hi Neil, >=20 > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 11:29=E2=80=AFPM NeilBrown wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: > > > On 23/10/2023 20:49, Andrew Morton wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:11:36 +0300 Dan Carpenter wrote: > > > >> Yesterday someone on my lists just sent an email looking for kernel > > > >> tasks. > > > > > > > > Well here's a task: write a bot which follows the mailing lists and > > > > sends people nastygrams if one of their emails is more than 95%(?) > > > > quoted text. > > > > > > > > It's happening significantly more lately. Possibly because the gmail > > > > client helpfully hides quoted text. > > > > > > I would also point to reviewers and maintainers who give a Rb/Ack tag: > > > 1. somewhere at the top, without any footer like Best regards, and then > > > quote entire patch, so I don't know shall I look for more comments after > > > Rb/Ack? > > > > > > 2. quote entire email and then add Rb/Ack, so I need to figure out > > > whether there was something between the hundreds of lines of text or no= t. > > > > Here we all are, brilliantly talented computer programmers who spend > > our days making amazing fast digital devices do amazingly clever and > > subtle things, inventing time-saving tools and processing vast amounts > > of data without blinking, but for some reason we think the task of > > skipping over a few thousand lines that all start with '> " is too hard > > for us and that we should, in stead, complain to some other human to > > convince them to make our life easier for us. > > > > Does anyone else see the irony? >=20 > Please compare the numbers: > 1. 1 sender removes irrelevant parts, > 2. N receivers skip irrelevant parts. That is one way to look at the numbers. Another is: 12 - fix about a dozen MUAs to summaries quotes properly 12000 - fix an unknownable number of people to quote just exactly the amount that their particular audience is going to want and when it comes to fixing-code versus fixing-people, I know which this community is better at. I guess there is also the option 1 - fix vger.kernel.org to reject postings from people who don't think and quote like "us", because we already have too many contributor and want to block the heretics This is really just a form of the "platform problem" which lwn.net has occasionally written about. The "problem" is that we treat the platform (library code or other infrastructure) as fixed and develop ugly hacks in our own code to work around some shortcoming, rather the going into the platform and fixing it once for everyone there. NeilBrown