From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0F962A13 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:53:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [66.63.167.143]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2689DFD for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:53:00 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1539715978.2805.59.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: James Bottomley To: Tim.Bird@sony.com, josh@joshtriplett.org Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:52:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <20181016021254.GA21220@thunk.org> <1539702797.2805.19.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <20181016180010.GC4367@localhost> <1539713962.2805.41.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Draft Maintainer's Summit Agenda and Attendees List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 2018-10-16 at 18:38 +0000, Tim.Bird@sony.com wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: James Bottomley > > > > On Tue, 2018-10-16 at 11:00 -0700, Josh Triplett wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 08:13:17AM -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2018-10-16 at 10:11 +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote: > > > > > And I don't see anyone else from an external community with > > > > > real experience (or someone who does consulting in this area) > > > > > invited to fill that gap either. > > > > > > > > I don't buy the narrative that you must be a CoC consultant or > > > > implementor to make a difference. > > > > > > We typically don't make major changes in a specialized domain > > > without consulting domain experts, to avoid building a solution > > > that won't work or ignores well-known issues in that domain. We > > > wouldn't go off and build a virtualization subsystem without > > > consulting virtualization experts; we wouldn't build a storage > > > subsystem without consulting storage experts; we wouldn't hack on > > > a license without consulting legal experts; the same applies > > > here. > > > > I notice you carefully cut the part about people who've been active > > in helping the kernel in this regard already being present; > > I think that characterizing Joshes response as having "carefully cut" > a section has a little more implication of mal intent that I'd > prefer. I think you can reiterate your point about having people > there that you consider to be domain experts present, without this. OK, if that was unintentional I apologise for the misinterpretation and overreaction. I suppose I'm sensitised by the fact that I've seen too many people spend a huge amount of effort on this for zero recognition. > > so we do have some domain experts ... plus no external ones have > > actually been proposed at this point. > > It seemed pretty obvious to me that Daniel was referring to himself > or someone else from the subsystem (DRM?) that's already adopted > the CoC. But a more explicit recommendation (like a candidate name) > would add clarity to the discussion. > > > We also don't usually listen deferentially to domain experts ... > > spectre and meltdown would be a case in point here. > > You don't have to be deferential to domain experts to benefit > from their experience. > > Having said that, I don't think a short face-to-face session is going > to yield much in the way changes, and the list of invitees was worked > out already over a long period of time. And as you stated > previously there will be other venues (both face-to-face and online) > to add input to the process. Agreed, his is why I think the proposed KS/Plumbers session will be far more important: it's in front of a much wider audience at an open conference. James > Personally I don't see much benefit in changing the invitee list at > this point, and some dangers. Not everyone who wants to be there > can. That's OK with me. I'm not invited either. > -- Tim > > > _______________________________________________ > Ksummit-discuss mailing list > Ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-discuss >