From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B975D6C for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 09:54:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.9]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65CA1AC for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 09:54:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1472378050.61594.643.camel@infradead.org> From: David Woodhouse To: Greg KH , Wolfram Sang Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 10:54:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20160828074706.GB1370@kroah.com> References: <20160827183550.GB1601@katana> <20160828074706.GB1370@kroah.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-2v7YH2TBdpjkLiLIT/Bh" Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Bradley M. Kuhn" , Linus Torvalds , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-2v7YH2TBdpjkLiLIT/Bh Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2016-08-28 at 09:47 +0200, Greg KH wrote: >=20 > So I strongly believe that without the help of companies contributing to > Linux, we wouldn't be here where we are today.=C2=A0 It's taken everyone = to > get here, we can't do it alone.=C2=A0 So let's never try to cut ourselves= off > of people we perceive as "the enemy", and instead, treat them as merely > "oh, they don't quite get it yet", and work to educate them and bring > them into our community[2]. Greg, this is completely unhelpful hyperbole. All your examples are arguing against a massive straw man. Nobody is calling companies "the enemy", or trying to say that they have not contributed massively to the development of Linux. Of *course* we want corporate involvement. But we just want everyone to follow the terms of the licence. There is a *small* minority of bad actors who simply don't do that the licence requires of them. And it *isn't* harmless. When a closed but "good enough" solution exists, it massively reduces the motivation to work on a *proper* open source solution. Without OpenAFS, we'd have got true AFS support in the kernel much sooner. Without the nVidia driver, we'd have have much faster progress on nouveau. Without the binary-only=20 Broadcom wireless drivers, we'd have had a much better platform for OpenWRT and the like to develop on. Sure, some GPL violations are a "victimless crime", but many aren't. Many violators actually do complete with honest companies who are paying the extra cost of doing the right thing, and undercutting them by taking the shortcuts. James said that the "solid business rationale" for contributing to GPL'd code is based on the fact that "your competition HAS TO show you the code they would complete with you on". That's *my* stress on the words "HAS TO", of course =E2=80=94 because in a world where nobody was *ever* actually held to the terms of the licence, and everyone got away with just treating it as if it were BSD and contributing back only when they felt like it, the bottom would fall out from under James's "solid business rationale". Failing to contribute GPL'd code back when the GPL says you "have to" is a risk. You seem to be arguing that you want to make it unambiguously *not* a risk to break the law in that way, and you don't seem to realise that we *need* it to be a risk because that's the underpinning of *all* the quiet negotiations that we *hope* will always be sufficient to resolve every violation. --=20 dwmw2 --=-2v7YH2TBdpjkLiLIT/Bh Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEeAw ggXiMIIDyqADAgECAhBrp4p9CteI1lEK+Vnk57ThMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMH0xCzAJBgNVBAYT AklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMSkwJwYDVQQDEyBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0 eTAeFw0xNTEyMTYwMTAwMDVaFw0zMDEyMTYwMTAwMDVaMHUxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0 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